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Old 11-10-2012, 03:38 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Waiting to hear all about it!
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:10 PM   #22 (permalink)
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ok, i'm finally able to get back here and tell you guys!

so, i knew going there that we were going to a farm where the owners breed standards as well as golden doodles (and miniature horses). i asked during our phone conversation earlier this week if the dogs lived in their home and the answer was, "no, they are kenneled but we are down at the barn every day so we spend a lot of time with them."

i figured, fair enough, if you own a farm you would surely spend a lot of time in your barn and with your barn dogs. i know there are plenty of very well-loved outdoor farm animals. it's just a lifestyle for some, ya know?

well, it wasn't quite as picturesque as i was painting it in my mind. there were 46 puppies. the whelping areas were barn stalls (which was actually nice because they were clean and had plenty of room) but the adult dogs were all outside in chain-link runs. i think i saw at least 15 adults and they were two to a ~4x20 pen.

i will say that the owner wasn't trying to hide anything. he was obviously quite comfortable with their methods. in fact, he offered up information that you wouldn't think he would have wanted to, such as the fact that the dogs only get groomed twice a year, only let out of the runs once a week and they don't see vets unless necessary since the cost would be so high.

:(

so, as far as the poodle we went to meet. her name is peaches. peaches was very sweet and pretty. she LOVED playing fetch and seemed very happy, actually. she followed the owner around very loyally with tail wagging and didn't give a second thought to our big dog being there. when her owner initially let her out she did jump up on people a few times but she mellowed out and became focused on playing for a few minutes. after he finished playing ball with her, she stayed right with all of us while we stood around talking. isn't that sweet? here's a dog that only gets freedom once a week and she still loves her people enough to sit beside them during her free time instead of wandering off.

anyway, so as far as her care not being good..... well, first she is filthy. dust clouds poof off of her when you pat her. such as shame for such a beauty. i was dying to scoop her up and run home to my bathtub and grooming supplies! second, he said he thinks she may have an ear infection because she has been shaking her head a lot. third, her teeth are a mess. luckily, i thought to look at her teeth right at the time we were about to leave. they were really bad. i'm hoping that under all the tartar, there are healthy teeth there, but she is definitely in need of deep cleaning.

so, they want a $300 rehoming fee. before i left told him to ask his wife (who is the one in charge, of course! ha!) if she would be willing to reduce the adoption fee in order to compensate for the costs we will incur at the vet for an exam, her grooming, ears and teeth.

i explained that i've been going through the approval process of two local poodle rescues and that their rehoming fees are comparable, but they come to you having been cleaned up and given a good bill of health for that price.

the money factor kind-of make me reluctant just simply because it infuriates me that this dog has probably made them A LOT of money in her 6 years and they cant even keep her clean and then they want to charge someone three-hundred dollars to finally take care of her?!?!? ironically, the wife is also a dental hygienist (as am i) so she KNOWS that bad oral health is not at all good for general health so how could she let this girl's mouth get soooo bad?!?!?
so, yeah, giving them money for her just feels so wrong when they haven't done crap for her- but then again- it isn't poor Peaches fault.

my main cause for hesitance is the whole house-trainig thing. please tell me what you guys think. her owner said he obviously can't say if she's housebroken because she's lived in a kernel. he did say that when she is whelping, she is one of only a couple of his mamas that will not ever mess in there. i'm just really worried about messes in the house. we are looking for an adult primarily for that reason, you know? someone else i talked to said that most dogs who are used to going outside, won't go inside- even if they've been going in a run.

it would feel so good to save this girl and be the people who can show her the world and the pleasures of living inside with her people. i really feel we would be rescuing her instead of simply adopting her. that feeling motivates me to want to bring her home even if we do have some struggles but that easier said than done. i'm scared to be honest.

thoughts?
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:18 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Personally, I would not feel comfortable giving any money to someone with these breeding practices. I find it deplorable.

I would save my money for rescue or for a responsibly bred poodle.
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
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i know what you mean. i agree it doesn't feel right to do so. i would never dream of buying one of their puppies and supporting that aspect of their operation, but somehow it feels a little different if it is helping one of those poor dogs live their late years the way they should have led their whole life, kwim?
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kukukachoo View Post
i know what you mean. i agree it doesn't feel right to do so. i would never dream of buying one of their puppies and supporting that aspect of their operation, but somehow it feels a little different if it is helping one of those poor dogs live their late years the way they should have led their whole life, kwim?
I understand what you are saying. It's a common thought process when someone visits a place like that. Some people would even end up buying one of the puppies to "rescue" it from those circumstances. But, personally, I would try to not let myself get too caught up emotionally because I'd rather rescue a dog in need from a rescue organization.

You have to weigh the pros and cons about this dog. What kind of condition is she in? What kind of health issues might she have?
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:29 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Thank you for your voice of reason. You are very right about it being a huge risk not only behaviorally, but health-wise.
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:33 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Oh gosh I would do it in a second. Yes, it's an emotional response, I know. But like you said, Peaches has churned out litter after litter and now doesn't she deserve some loving and a family of her own? I hope they come way down in the price for you, but if they don't, maybe you could tell them, well here's my info if you change your mind. As for the housetraining, I really don't think it would be a problem at all. Even among the breeds that are notoriously HARD to housebreak, adults can be re-trained using the same methods that we use with puppies, i.e. consistency, taking them out regularly, and praising when they go where you want. I mean there are tons of good quality puppies and dogs out there too from reputable breeders, it's a great route to go, and I would highly recommend that for long-term breeder support, a known health history and the health testing breeders do so you can be sure of good health and longevity, but honestly? I would buy Peaches if it were me. My two cents!
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:46 PM   #28 (permalink)
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This is a hard one. My heart is sayin, Save Peaches ! But I know you would only be making room in the barn for a new , younger female to take her place, adding to the problem...

As far as her being NOT housebroke. I don't think that would be much of an issue. A friend of mine took in an adult dog that had never set foot in a house before and it never had a single accident in the house. By nature they want to go outside and given the chance most will willing do it.

I for one will not judge you and your decision. I know you love dogs and only want what is best for them. xoxox
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:00 PM   #29 (permalink)
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and let me add that by asking them to come down on the price, i am hoping it might imply to them that they should take responsibility for her current state. we have the means to pay $300 plus the vet bills, but i feel THEY need to be held responsible. its more of a moral issue than a budget issue, really.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:09 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Sounds like a very nice dog and a terrible breeder. I really hate giving people like this money and understand CM's point. I like the point you made about how the rescue's rehoming fee covers various expenses and the breeder should reduce the price to compensate. Maybe you can get him down in price. Maybe you could even start to walk away from the deal and see if he drops the price.

However, realistically, whether you do or do not give this person $300 is not going to make one bit of difference in his continuing breeding practices. But getting this dog will change your life and the dog's life in ways that are likely to be very positive. So, while I am sympathetic to CM's point, my vote would be with Indiana: Go for it! This sounds like a really good dog for you, and you and Dude sound like you'd be really good for Peaches.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I got my girl Sophie under similar circumstances. I paid around $300 for her (not exactly sure of the amount--it was 10 years ago). A very reputable breeder told me about Sophie. She (the reputable breeder) said that she would not recommend buying a puppy from this breeder, but she viewed getting Sophie as a rescue.

I hope that Peaches turns out to be as wonderful for you (and Dude) as Sophie was for me.
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