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Old 09-26-2012, 09:58 AM   #121 (permalink)
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I'm not advocating for anything except the dogs, but there are usually degrees of a situation going down a slippery slope. Time and neglect by Poodle Rescue and Yadda because of failure to compromise did not improve the dogs' lives. Groups forcing solutions on individuals cannot really "do" much of anything and only serves to anger the individual into an "all or nothing" position. She asked for help; why not have given her the help she wanted and go from there. She may have been able to recover to everyone's tentative satisfaction, or not. At least it wouldn't have been an all or nothing decision. The situation could then be to monitoring.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:13 AM   #122 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PaddleAddict View Post
You know what? I really do not agree with this sentiment at all.

Are you telling me that Poodle Rescue is supposed to take some of the neglected dogs, but leave the rest so Yadda can continue breeding and keeping animals in conditions such as we read about online? This is not the way rescues function, I am sorry. And sadly, sometimes you cannot step in to seize the dogs until it because "bad enough." I am sure you have all seen this played out numerous times online and on TV.

I realize that many forum members here formed personal attachments to Yadda, but how does that make you lose sight of the dogs? The dogs are what is important here.

Seriously, a bitch with a litter of pups tied up in a barn, matted and filthy. Did you look at these photos? How is this in any way OK? Can you picture your own poodle in this situation? Consider the mental status of these poodles, neglected and living outside. You know that providing food and some shelter is not enough for a poodle. The whole situation makes me just sick.

I don't care about diverse bloodlines or mental health status or anything other than the condition of those poor animals. If saving those dogs and getting them into a better situation means spaying and neutering them ALL then so be it! The poodle breed will not suffer irreversible damage because these few dogs are taken out of the gene pool.
I have not seen one single post where ANYONE said the conditions these dogs were living in was in any way okay!
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:17 AM   #123 (permalink)
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If the dogs were horribly neglected years ago, then why wait? Respectfully......

Poodle Rescue had it's chance to help the dogs before.......
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:20 AM   #124 (permalink)
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...
Also her dogs are no more diverse in their pedigree than anything any other BYBis breeding with!
...
I haven't researched Yadda poodles very througly. For curiosity's sake I looked at PHR and checked pedigree of a litter from 2011. The Wycliffe% was about 21%, 10 generation COI was 1,5%. I didn't found any Eaton Affirmed in 10 generation pedigree and most of the dogs in last 4 generations seemed to be at most moderately used. 10 generation pedigree contained more than 800 unique names. 15 generation pedigree contained almost 4000 unique names. Are you sure about your statement?

Of course these quickly searched numbers are only partial measurement of diversity and value of individuals to the gene pool but they were at least easily available information.

And before somebody accuses me of accepting poor treatment of breeding dogs, I don't accept it. I just can't see how neutering every dog would undo what has been done or how preserving some of the lines would prevent the dogs from having a good life in the future.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:22 AM   #125 (permalink)
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There is too much hate on these pages. Where there is this much hate, there is no love and without love there is no compassion and without compassion there is no humanity and when there is no humanity it is a very dark place we go. Bonhofer even while being led to the gallows by the Nazi's still had compassion for them. Can we do any less?
Many of you do not know what mental illness and depression can do to you. Sometimes a TV or a computer can be the only means of rest. For those of you blessed by always being stable and warm, good on you, but for those who understand the depths, thank you.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:29 AM   #126 (permalink)
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There is too much hate on these pages. Where there is this much hate, there is no love and without love there is no compassion and without compassion there is no humanity and when there is no humanity it is a very dark place we go. Bonhofer even while being led to the gallows by the Nazi's still had compassion for them. Can we do any less?
Many of you do not know what mental illness and depression can do to you. Sometimes a TV or a computer can be the only means of rest. For those of you blessed by always being stable and warm, good on you, but for those who understand the depths, thank you.
AMEN Dagmar! Thank you!
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:30 AM   #127 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tuomas View Post
I haven't researched Yadda poodles very througly. For curiosity's sake I looked at PHR and checked pedigree of a litter from 2011. The Wycliffe% was about 21%, 10 generation COI was 1,5%. I didn't found any Eaton Affirmed in 10 generation pedigree and most of the dogs in last 4 generations seemed to be at most moderately used. 10 generation pedigree contained more than 800 unique names. 15 generation pedigree contained almost 4000 unique names. Are you sure about your statement?

Of course these quickly searched numbers are only partial measurement of diversity and value of individuals to the gene pool but they were at least easily available information.

And before somebody accuses me of accepting poor treatment of breeding dogs, I don't accept it. I just can't see how neutering every dog would undo what has been done or how preserving some of the lines would prevent the dogs from having a good life in the future.
Exactly!
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:50 AM   #128 (permalink)
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Nevermind.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:58 AM   #129 (permalink)
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Are you telling me that Poodle Rescue is supposed to take some of the neglected dogs, but leave the rest so Yadda can continue breeding and keeping animals in conditions such as we read about online?

Never, ever saw anyone suggest or imply that this on this thread anywhere. This is another "strawman argument" which states something that no one said and then you argue against it. "A straw man, is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

I realize that many forum members here formed personal attachments to Yadda, but how does that make you lose sight of the dogs? The dogs are what is important here.
Not sure who is personally attached or not to Yadda and that really doesn't enter into the discussion. Dogs are important but humans are important too. Especially, since humans can create or not create these situations, wouldn't you want humans to get the help they need so they create these conditions for dogs again, if at all possible?

Seriously, a bitch with a litter of pups tied up in a barn, matted and filthy. Did you look at these photos? How is this in any way OK? Can you picture your own poodle in this situation? Consider the mental status of these poodles, neglected and living outside. You know that providing food and some shelter is not enough for a poodle. The whole situation makes me just sick.
Yes- looked at photos. No - it's definitely not ok. Never - terrible thought of my precious babies out in those conditions. But again no one here is defending Darla's actions..another strawman argument. Some are advocating to preserve any unique poodle genetics and express they'd like Yadda to get the help she needs which is ultimately her decision to receive.

I don't care about diverse bloodlines or mental health status or anything other than the condition of those poor animals. If saving those dogs and getting them into a better situation means spaying and neutering them ALL then so be it! The poodle breed will not suffer irreversible damage because these few dogs are taken out of the gene pool.
That's your opinion which, of course, you're entitled to...Please be sure to read The Standard Poodle Project ...it might change your opinion...and then again maybe not...but it's worth a shot. Others of us are thinking more longterm of what is best for ALL of the poor Standard Poodles' situation healthwise, as well as, preventing this tragic situation being created again with Yadda or others in the future. And as someone else already mentioned, not all the poodles are in such condition that they cannot have happy, productive lives ongoing INSIDE a loving home.

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Old 09-26-2012, 12:02 PM   #130 (permalink)
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My only comment on this sad situation was before I knew that these dogs belonged to Yadda- I wrote”Heartbreaking story, Keith, what could have happened to bring that breeder so low?? “
I had no idea who it could be, but assumed it had to be someone not very active on the forum, and not someone that I hold in such high esteem.
Very shortly after that post, a breeder friend of mine to whom I had forwarded the PF discussion on hip dysplasia sent me a note,and the link to the rescue story, saying that the ‘breeder’ involved was the person who had posted that discussion. I still didn’t get it, so I went back to see who else was involved with that thread..It could not be Yadda!
When it finally dawned on me that it was indeed, Darla, I near cried..and I think I felt that way because Darla always seemed the voice of reason, and calm,and she taught me so much about the genetic diversity of poodles,and always, always appeared to put the health and welfare of these beautiful dogs above her own.. I loved how she played devil’s advocate, I loved how very civil she was when discussions became heated, and I loved that her mission was to educate as many people as possible on the health issues facing our poodles. I still admire that.
I’ve not said a word since then, because at first I was as outraged as many of the other posters as what had ben allowed to happen to her dogs and I was sad and disappointed that a trust had been broken. Those dogs depended on Darla for their welfare, both physically and emotionally, and from previous posts, I understood that these dogs were the sole emotional support in her solitary life on the mountain. Clearly, something went catastrophically wrong up on that mountain and now these dogs were suffering along with Darla.
Unless someone intervened, their suffering would continue without end- and that is wrong. We have to make life good for them again.
It is not my place to judge Darla, I don’t have to walk in her shoes, and I don’t know her pain. Anger solves nothing. I am sure that the repercussions for her will be severe.For me, it is better feel to compassion all the suffering- of man and beast. I wish her well.
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