SECRETO

Ok so I found a few pics of Eli's dam and sire. They aren't the best pics but you can get an idea of how blue his dam is. I consider her a "True Blue" . Her color seems very rich and deep. The creme dog is his sire.

I had always thougt Eli was going to be black but after I have read more Im unsure. Eli had the brown highlights when he was younger but when I cut him down he was black again. I was told that the sun will make his hair get a brownish tint but he even had the brownish tint on hair underneath is paws.
I have been noticing a lot of whitish guard hair's coming in through his body and even his muzzle now.

So what does everyone else think? Eli does have Jet black dogs behind his mother's pedigree. Any idea's? Oh and Eli is almost 15 months now.

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SECRETO

Here are pics of his grandfather (black dog) and his great grandmother (creme dog)

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tannerokeefe

I dont know anything, but he looks like a blue from what I have seen!! Also, I thought about the name Holywood for my new guy!!

SECRETO

Well here are some pics of Eli.

Oh and if Bears dad get's on here, can you post some pics of your boy when he was black. (if you don't mind) I want to compare. lol

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spoofan

Here is a picture of my Gaby,who is now over the Rainbow bridge.
As a puppy she was jet black,except for her face,which was dark grey.
It took her almost 3 years to fade to a nice blue.
First signs were...feathering around the eyes and lower part of her 'pants'.

spoofan

Looking at the pictures,my guess is,that Eli will be black.

CurlyDog

So can a good breeder always tell if a puppy will be a blue or black? Max was sold to us as black but I see some brown tones and some isolated white hairs. That makes me wonder if he might not be a true black.

gwtwmum2

I think Eli is a black. He looks darker at an older age than Wrigley does and Wriggs is just 16 weeks.
I don't think it is a good or bad breeder thing - I just think some people read more about this subject than others. My breeder does all the health testing, has a wonderful 5 year guarantee, and raises all dogs in her home. So she passes those criteria with flying colors! But she said Wrigley was a black. So, I wonder if she has done much reading on blues. But I definitely don't think she was trying to be misleading.

tannerokeefe

he is beautiful regardless of color, but I know why you want to know!

IPP

Well here is what little I know about genetics and DO NOT TAKE THIS AS 100% fact...its been a few yrs since freshman college genetics.

Solid Black coloring comes in 2 forms... BB and Bb...so a true black would have to be either BB or Bb. So if you we sold a true black it "should HAVE" to come from 2 black parents. To get a blue from 2 black parents is not unusual...it is your bb you get from breeding 2 Bb blacks together. Once you take said bb and breed it will anything other than BB you dilute the BB even more and get your silvers.

I know that other colors are what are called co-dominant masking genes...in other words sometimes if 2 parents have a hidden gene color the 2 will get together and that color will "mask" the other color. This is how you get an odd white puppy in a group of mostly one or 2 NOT white puppies. I don't know if Poodle whites work like that, but I do know so breeds do...you start getting all white pups in your litters when you take that masking gene and "work" with it. So if you take 2 dogs that are white or factored for white, breed them together...then you get either all white or mostly white litters.

So another thing I have heard from alot of breeders is about the white hair thing...but to me it makes sense. If you have a dog that is supposed to be black, and it starts growing hairs that are white or significantly lighter than the normal coat color...there has to be a fading gene in them somewhere, right?

Like my Raven has the brownish tones to her hair, but she has NO white hairs anywhere. Her parents were both "black" but her mother looked more brownish to me than her father. So I am thinking that Raven is a Bb to a BB or a Bb to Bb breeding.

That means she very well could be a bb which would make her a blue, even without the white hairs or the fact she was supposed to be black born with black toenails. I mean I trust the breeder, but I still think it is very possible my black girl is a blue. I think she will be one of the dark blues, when I shave her face it still looks black, not silver and not faded near the nose...but she is only 8 months old. I know that some say 2 yrs old for a blue, but I really think it might take longer to start really showing unless stood next to a nice dark black dog.

Just my random thoughts on the subject...I have forgot more than I remember about genetics. I did do alot of reserch on Doberman colors for a high school project and I know that it takes certain colors to make others, and that "factoring" for different colors plays a lot into it.

I also know that you cannot go by the color that someone rights down on a piece of paper...human error or greed plays into that unfortunately.