*heather*

I know I know... this is a overdone topic... I just have one question; Does anyone out there own a Standard Red that is over 3 years old and has not faded?
There is so much talk about bad blacks and non-fading browns that it just got me thinking...... I've seen some really nice older blacks lately that are still a deep, dark, inky black, and a few deep browns that are still a rich chocolate brown even at 5 and 6 years old... but really, I don't think I've ever seen a red at that age that has not faded to an apricot shade of some sort. I would love to see if there are any "good REDS" out there!
As most of you know, I have a wonderful 5month old red pup that I love with all my heart. I am fully aware that he will most likely fade to a nice apricot color and I'm ok with that.
I just want to see if any of those claims about non-fading REDS actually exist.

roxy25

Its fact , A pal on flicker posted a red poodle who was 9 years old and it was still a nice red. Let me find it and I will post the picture for you.

roxy25

ok here is is his name is Jake 9 years Wesley is 2 years I believe

http://www.flickr.com/photos/angelfr...7611459419104/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/angelfr...7611459419104/

I know a breeder with a red female that stayed red till she was 13 Maybe I can get pictures of her and post.

*heather*

he's a great colour for 9 years old!! Awesome! Wonder what his pedigree looks like....

what are your thoughts on Enzo? is he going to stay dark? or do you think he'll lighten up too?

ArreauStandardPoodle

You will find breeders who claim their dogs will not fade. I don't think it is true. While some of us will get lucky enough to get a deep, deep red that holds its colour, most of the pups, even pups from the same litters as those deep ones will fade. I contacted DDC labs and asked about non dilute genes and graying genes, and they informed me that a dog can test out showing it has the non dilute gene and still carry the graying gene, for which there is no test. They don't see a test for graying available in the near future either. So it appears if it doesn't have one thing it has the other. In a litter of ten last year, I had three born a good red that have darkened over time to the deepest mahogany I have seen. I don't feel they will fade as they started lighter and darkened until now, age 15 months. I had three medium reds who are a fair bit darker than they were at birth, three golden reds who are the fiery red we most associate with red Poodles, and one who I sold as apricot who has shocked us all and is a deeper, rich fiery red, darker than the golden reds were. I believe all but fouur of the pups will fade out, not to apricot, because apricot leans more towards yellow tones, but to a faded rust. BUT, we did not see the extent of the darkening until they were over a year old. So how can I possibly tell people the pups will not fade when I surely didn't know how much some of them would darken. I would presume the best way to breed reds in hope of non fading puppies would be two breed two dogs together who have a history of darkening puppies, and I believe that is what we were lucky enough to have happen with Holly and Dugan. But even the deepest red dog bred to a deep red dog can produce fading pups because of the graying gene. If you look around the different sites and even this forum, there are not many reds over a year old that are the deeper tones, but rather are the orange tones which tells me they will likely fade. Just my opinion and my personal experiences. One day we will all get it figured out, and hopefully produce entire litters of mahogany pups that hold that colour until they are old and...never mind. We don't want gray!!

roxy25

As for Enzo we do not know He is still dark and is 1 year of age. I had other breeders and handlers tell us he looks like he will hold his color so we will just have to wait to find out lol

Arreau I think you are right ! thanks for the additional INFO I did not know about the graying gene. I have asked several breeders about their reds and apricots and they all said the same thing you just mentioned. It really is a guessing game. I do not know how some of these other red breeders claim their dogs will not fade because they where colored tested ? Vetgen is not aware of any fading gene Cbrand pointed that out to me and she was right !

I hope you and others do figure it out

ArreauStandardPoodle

The first two photos are Betty-Jo who has continually darkened. The second set of three are Jackson, who I thought would end up apricot who deepened, but not to the extent of Betty-Jo. Betty is mahogany and Jackson is the fiery red we associate with red Poos. (sorry- Will post younger photos of Betty-Jo on a different post)

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*heather*

I guess I'm just skeptical because I see so many 1-2 year olds who are this color, but then they change after 2 - 3 years of age.... how old is Jackson?

plumcrazy

Yeah but what if Lucy turns GREEEEEEN???!!!??? JK! I'd still love her to pieces! Katy's brown poodle is just a year (DOB 9/23/08) and is already liberally sprinkled with white hairs amidst the brown... although no one claimed the person who bred her was a good breeder (or even a decent breeder, or a responsible human being... ) In spite of her changing colors we love her more than ever!!

ArreauStandardPoodle

I am so sorry, my last post is very confusing. It did not turn out the way I wanted. The baby pictue of Betty-Jo apparently was too large a file, and the photo that is three pictures attached together is from the welcome page on my web site. Jackson is the fellow in the picture on the right of those. He is also the little light boy in the last post sitting by himself. I will post some photos of Betty as a youngster so you can see how much she has darkened over time.