Non-Fading Red Standard Poodles? fact or fiction? - Page 6 - Poodle Forum - Standard Poodle, Toy Poodle, Miniature Poodle Forum ALL Poodle owners too!

wishpoo · 11-13-2009, 09:41 PM

Well - that is where "great pigmentation" comes when one describes a dog of superior quality and you are absolutely right - people cheat in a ring by "blackening " black dogs hair !!!! I did not see noses done

- that is just preposterous

!!!! How is it allowed ????? Black nose is a MUST for both black and white poodle for showing

PonkiPoodles · 11-13-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jak

So any guesses what my dog could be?

She has black pigmentation on lips, eyerims and pads, and had a black nose as a puppy, but now it is liver. I know she pretty much lived outside as a puppy, but slept inside at nights.

Her brother has a fully black nose, her sister has a slightly off black nose. Not sure about her parents, but her grandmother apparently had same nose as her. But they made it black, lol, and her grandfather's both had fully black noses.

If your dog previously had a black nose that turned to liver this is proabably because of loss of pigment and not because of the dilute gene. Dogs who are dilute are usually born diluted. (meaning that if they are blue they will be born blue or slightly darker than blue or if they are apricot they will be born apricot). For example weimeraners, blue pit bulls, fawn/blue dobermans etc. But as I've said before this is not a rule of thumb as there are many different genes that work together to create coat and point colors.

It won't be because of the greying gene as this does not affect the color of the eye rims and/or nose. Dogs who carry the greying gene are usually born black or dark liver and lighten over time for example: yorkshire terriers, kerry blue terriers, bedlington terriers... even thou they lighten their eye rims and nose color remains black.

Determining genes in dogs is not always easy because there are quite a few genes they can not accurately test for. I think the greying gene is one of them.

What do they use to color/dye the noses with?

jak · 11-14-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PonkiPoodles

If your dog previously had a black nose that turned to liver this is proabably because of loss of pigment and not because of the dilute gene. Dogs who are dilute are usually born diluted. (meaning that if they are blue they will be born blue or slightly darker than blue or if they are apricot they will be born apricot). For example weimeraners, blue pit bulls, fawn/blue dobermans etc. But as I've said before this is not a rule of thumb as there are many different genes that work together to create coat and point colors.

It won't be because of the greying gene as this does not affect the color of the eye rims and/or nose. Dogs who carry the greying gene are usually born black or dark liver and lighten over time for example: yorkshire terriers, kerry blue terriers, bedlington terriers... even thou they lighten their eye rims and nose color remains black.

Determining genes in dogs is not always easy because there are quite a few genes they can not accurately test for. I think the greying gene is one of them.

What do they use to color/dye the noses with?

I have heard of a thing called "De nose nos"

Fluffyspoos · 11-14-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PonkiPoodles

If your dog previously had a black nose that turned to liver this is proabably because of loss of pigment and not because of the dilute gene. Dogs who are dilute are usually born diluted. (meaning that if they are blue they will be born blue or slightly darker than blue or if they are apricot they will be born apricot).

This had me going "Aaahhh!" thanks for the great explanation! So you're saying those dogs will eventually fade to a washed out color?

PonkiPoodles · 11-14-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffyspoos

This had me going "Aaahhh!" thanks for the great explanation! So you're saying those dogs will eventually fade to a washed out color?

Not necessarily, like I mentioned, many genes are involved in coat and point color. Often the loss of pigment can vary in intensity. Some dogs might have a slight fading on their nose and others will have their nose turn completely pink and have their eye rims affected as well.
A black changing to pink/liver nose can also be the results of a “winter” or “snow” nose (which is not permanent) or can be caused by the disease Vitiligo, but I think that is unlikely because Vitiligo sufferers also looses pigment in their coat, which causes patches of their coat to turn completely white.

A dudley nose does not affect the coat color as far as I know and there is not really any treatment for it. But seeing as it doesn't harm the dog, I don't think it is something that you should be too concerned about.
For some reason I thought I read somewhere that you could slow the loss of pigment process by adding kelp to your dog's food?!?! But don't take my word for it

I've never tried it. "Life Line" makes Ocean kelp that you can add to dogfood if you want to test the theory.

960 · 11-14-2009, 08:42 PM

Hi there, I am new to this forum but as I understand it DD means non-dulite, dd means dulite and Dd means carries for dulite, BB refers to the points, BB means black points, Bb means black points carrying for brown points and bb means brown points, as with brown, and silverbeige. I have a red girl that I reciently got color tested and she is DD ee Bb meaning red with black points, but carrying for brown points and no dulite gene. You are right tho that there is no test for silvering gene but no silvers in her pedigree so hopefully I will have a better chance of Dark Red puppies.

ArreauStandardPoodle · 11-17-2009, 07:21 AM

Heather...

I just wanted you to see these photos so you'd knoe Betty and Jenny are not flukes of nature. This is Eleanor, their litter sister. I just got these adult photos of her yesterday. The first is of of her at about eight weeks old( she has the red collar), and the second two are current photos of the same girl. She has darkened remarkably and again, it must be that Holly and Dugan both tend to throw darkening pups.

ArreauStandardPoodle · 11-17-2009, 07:22 AM

Well poop, that didn't work. I will try for baby photos again.

ArreauStandardPoodle · 11-17-2009, 07:27 AM

Sorry...my photos of these guys as youngsters are not cooperating, but if you go to my web site, there are a ton there on the Meet Our Dogs page and then 2008 litter photos.

Trillium · 11-17-2009, 03:15 PM

I just thought I'd give Arreau a hand with baby Eleanor pics.