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Old 12-30-2012, 01:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Glad she's home and I hope you come upon a workable way to administer the meds. My mpoo would swallow a brick if it were wrapped in liverwurst. I don't know if Annabelle would be so easily swayed. But I can commiserate with the difficulty of trying to pill a dog or cat who wants no part of it, let alone one that's just had a mouth biospy. Fingers crossed for Wednesday to bring good news. Then I hope you throw her a giant birthday bash on the 30th! Hang in there, and thanks for the update.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:35 PM   #12 (permalink)
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@Chagall's Mom, thanks so much. I can tell how genuinely you feel for other members of the forum and I so appreciate your comments as I do everyone's around here.

Annabelle still will not take ANY medication whatsoever. She won't let anyone even close to her mouth. We tried to give her the pain medication from earlier and she just started fizzing at the mouth and a little blood started coming out of her mouth as well. I think she's just in pain. I so hate seeing her like this and we feel so helpless that nothing we try will help. I think also at a certain point, you get to the feeling that maybe we should just back off and do nothing until she's more willing to eat and drink something. It would be easier to put this medication in her food of course, but she won't eat or drink a thing.

It also makes me so mad when the vet always informs us how well the dog is doing while she's actually there, eating and hooked up to IVs and being given everything she needs at once yet the second she comes home, she hides away in her kennel and refuses anything and everything. I just hate the fact that the vets make it SOUND so easy and great. It NEVER is and I knew that Annabelle would probably have this classic refusal action when she returned home.

Certainly, it's not a huge deal if she doesn't eat or drink tonight, but with Annabelle, the longer she goes without anything...the more we worry. Obviously, her tummy must still hurt from the surgery on Friday, plus her mouth from the removal of the lump but they always make it seem like she's walking on airs when they're taking care of her but the second she comes home, it's like she wants to hide in a corner and die. This isn't the first time Annabelle has acted like this. She's had a huge fair share of time at the vet. The first time she crashed with her Addisons disease, she went into a dark corner and wouldn't move.

We care for this girl so much and it just kills us when we can't help her. I imagine she'll start eating and drinking tomorrow (oh god I hope so) but this is a very scary and frustrating situation.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Recently we had a cat that had to have surgery. He had to stay at the vet where my daughter worked for a few days. They told us how good he was and we brought him home. Got out the medications the first night. Now mind you I worked at a groom shop/kennel for years and she was a vet tech for seven years. We know how to handle animals. That cat FLEW across the room, spitting and hissing and foaming at the mouth! We were astonished! The next day back to the vet he went. I payed to board him so THEY could give him his meds.

I just want you to know, I know what you are going through! They seem to do so well at the vet then they get home and it all goes to the devil!
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
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TheBigRoo:I am not a crier, but your post makes me want to. I can feel, understand and empathize with this harrowing part of Annabelle's recovery, but can't help one whit other than to commiserate!

I don't know why there aren't transderm-patches or injectibles or suppositories available to dispense the meds. It is frustrating, worrying and aggravating beyond belief. What is the alternative, to leave the poor girl hooked up to IV's at the vet's for a longer stay?? That's not at all good! You'd think pet pharma would develop better delivery systems for pet caregivers to use. Grrr!

You're clearly well-seasoned in caring for a poodle with Addison's and other health concerns, but the additional load and worry foist upon you now is heartbreaking. Maybe tomorrow will be a bit better. Maybe someone on the forum has some ideas or experience to offer. It's maddening, though. Just maddening! Just like why liquid meds for kids and pets are made in colors like bright pink and day-glow orange that stain faces, fur, linens and furniture. What's the deal with that?!

Home care for a sick animal or person is hard, and it seems it's made unnecessarily harder at times. The vet's office putting on a smiley "game face" so does not help either, I get that!

I hope you and Annabelle will be able to get some sleep tonight. I'll check back to see what tomorrow brings. Wish you a peaceful night.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chagall's mom View Post
TheBigRoo:
I don't know why there aren't transderm-patches or injectibles or suppositories available to dispense the meds. It is frustrating, worrying and aggravating beyond belief. What is the alternative, to leave the poor girl hooked up to IV's at the vet's for a longer stay?? That's not at all good! You'd think pet pharma would develop better delivery systems for pet caregivers to use. Grrr!
This is probably a silly question, but don't they? They obviously give pets in the vet hospital injectible meds, could they allow you to? Like Chagall's mom said, you're very experienced. I used to work for a breeder and she got all kinds of vet grade injectible meds for various issues (wish I'd asked her how she got them now), but I know too with my brother whose bullmastiffs needed meds that some vets can be flexible in this issue. With my dogs, when they need pills (my pittie was on prednisone but I've only ever given my poodles de-worming pills), I just pop them in the back of their mouth and give them a little canned cat food chaser, and it works every time. But with your girl, like you said, fighting her to get the pain meds down might do more harm than good, poor thing. Thinking of you!
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
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This doesn't work for all meds but with one of our dogs, we got a pill crusher from the drug store and would grind up the pill and mix them with something yummy. This dog did not like taking pills but would accept them when mix with food this way.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:21 AM   #17 (permalink)
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There are injectible pain killers for dogs - and I'd ask my vet to give her one ASAP, if they are not prepared to let you do it yourself. But given that many pet owners routinely inject their diabetic animals with insulin, there is no reason why they should not show you how to do it. Poor Annabelle and poor you - I hope you all feel better soon.
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:15 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjm View Post
There are injectible pain killers for dogs - and I'd ask my vet to give her one ASAP, if they are not prepared to let you do it yourself. But given that many pet owners routinely inject their diabetic animals with insulin, there is no reason why they should not show you how to do it. Poor Annabelle and poor you - I hope you all feel better soon.
Exactly, fjm! For some reason, in 40 years of owning cats and dogs, I have never been prescribed pain or other essential medications in that form. It boggles my mind. Of course I know they exist, I guess my earlier ranting post didn't make that evident, Indiana. But REALLY, I so hope Annabelle can be cared for using more modern and humane medicine administration. First thought I woke up with today is how that poor girl is doing. I hope we hear something more encouraging today.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:39 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Sorry to be like a dog-with-a-bone about this, but it's bugging me! By coincidence, an article from Dr. Karen Becker's on-line newsletter, written by Ron Hines, DVM PHD entitled, "Pain Control in Dogs and Cats" arrived in my inbox this morning. I was wondering if it's an issue of cost or fear of improperly administering pain meds by injection or patch that makes it so vets don't readily prescribe these methods for home use. I don't know the nature of the pain meds Annabelle is on, but the article caught my eye. Here's an excerpt from it. (bf is mine) I promise to put the matter to rest now. I just hope Annabelle is resting comfortably.

Controlled Medications (Narcotics)
Opiates or Opioids are the most powerful pain-relieving compounds available for pets. They all mimic natural brain chemicals that limit the perception of pain. However, they are highly addictive and should be reserved for pain that will not respond to other medications. . Also, with time, doses have to be increased to obtain comparable pain relief. Side effects can include bizarre behavior similar to the euphoria (joyous feeling) seen in humans taking these meds, depression of breathing, physical dependence, slowed heart rate constipation and itching.

Opiate narcotics may also cause contraction of the pupils of the eyes, sedation and unusual taste in foods. In humans, they are generally given to alleviate the pain of terminal cancer or painful nerve conditions. In pets, they are given to lessen post-surgical pain, and the pain of trauma, or to combat the pain of arthritis and cancer when all other medications fail.(In dogs in late hip dysplasia, corticosteroids are more likely to be given )

Injectable and oral forms of opiates are rarely dispensed for pets in the United States. In the US, the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) frowns on any long-term use of opioids, fearing they might be diverted to illegal human use. The DEA lists all the strong opiates as CII (Class-2 narcotics). Most veterinarians fear prosecution by the DEA and use them as briefly in pets as possible. Because cats are deficient in glutathione liver enzyme, the half-life of some opioids in cats may be prolonged and doses must be considerably smaller.

Fentanyl Patches (Duragesic Janssen Pharma)
Veterinarians use this narcotic to alleviate post-surgical pain in pets (ref) and to treat the pain of terminal cancer. It is about 100 times stronger than morphine.

Only a few veterinarians dispense it for severe arthritis when NSAIDs fail. Most would rather gain a few more months of pain-free life for your pet by giving it corticosteroids. However, fentanyl has advantages in many dogs and cats over corticosteroids in relieving end-stage pain.

Fentanyl is not a drug to be used in your pet lightly. It is not, and never will be , a first line treatment for arthritis. But it can be a last ditch treatment for your pet to gain precious pain-free time.

After a fentanyl patch is applied to your pet’s skin, its intense analgesic (pain-canceling) power can block pain for up to three days.

There is a price to pay for that. Fentanyl is an opioid narcotic. All opioid narcotics can cause mood changes, sedation or restlessness in pets and humans. They are also powerful depressors of respiration and the nervous system, so your pet can pass away from respiratory failure (not breathing adequately) or circulatory collapse if the dose is too high or your pet is already too debilitated and weak. There is an antidote for these effects – Naloxone (Narcan). So pets placed on fentanyl should be hospitalized under close watch for the first 48 hours after beginning the patch or the dose should begin very low and only be increased very gradually over a period of weeks.

All control narcotics can cause mood change (dysphoria), whining and restlessness or depression and these are the side effects that bother pet owners most. Sometimes these problems lessen over time as the pet becomes used to the medication.

Dogs that are running fevers can absorb the drug too quickly from the patch and any form of external heat (such as a heating pad) – can release it suddenly. Other drugs your pet may be taking can also influence how fentanyl affects your dog. (Cushing’s and cognitive dysfunction medications, mood-altering drugs, tranquilizers, sedatives etc.)

Dogs are resistant to the effects of all opioids. So typical human doses have no bearing on what an effective dose will be in your pet.

Being a federally controlled substance, there is a lot of paperwork involved for your veterinarian and you will have to deliver and pick up the fentanyl prescription in person at your pharmacy.

Patches may cause irritation to the skin where they are applied. That problem tends to get worse with time, but it can be managed with soothing ointments. The patch is very dangerous if your pet swallows it..... There is a great deal of variation between pets in the amount of medication they will absorb so always begin by giving your pet less than you think it will need. (ref)

Fentanyl patches are not FDA-licensed for use in pets.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:19 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Yeah, me too, hope she is feeling a little bit better today
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