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Old 02-18-2011, 12:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default over bite

Hello... I'm new to this forum and new to Standard Poodles. We have a 10 week old S.P. who has a slight over bite. Went to the vet yesterday for a well puppy check-up and vet noticed this. Also checking her mouth the lower canine teeth were pushing into the top pallet. Oral surgery... vet removed the two lower canine teeth. She said this might solve pups problem and they would watch as the permanent teeth come in.

Have any of you here had experience with this and could you give some advise and what I may be looking for in the future.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Contact your breeder and let them know what is going on. There was a dog on here that had the same problem and I believe the person "guided" the teeth outwards while they grew in to prevent them from poking the palate.
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yes, let you breeder know.

Also, since teeth are already removed the only thing that is left for you is to wait permanent teeth and observe how will they place themselves. Hopefully correctly and it does happen very often ! You may ask your breeder or your Vet to show you how to massage growing canines outward with your fingers or using a tennis ball. If all fails than you may have to use braces in the future and that will solve the problem.

It is costly : (((, but is worth it in the long run, especially if overbite is big.
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
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My puppy had base narrow lower canines. We also had to remove the baby teeth as they had impacted the upper palate. The adult teeth came in completely straight as well so we had a dental implant put in that forced the adult teeth out into a normal bite. He has a bit of an overbite as well but nothing too serious(I had a greyhound that had quite an overbite and lived happily to 14+ years to the overbite itself shouldn't cause much problems).

It seems the lines my puppy comes from throws this quite frequently(there were at least four dogs in his litter with this issue as well as other dogs back in the pedigrees with the issue). I'm not a breeder and don't pretend to understand what makes a good breeding program but I honestly don't understand why this trait isn't discouraged in breeding.

Anyway, many will tell you the adult teeth can be massaged out as they come in and you might be able to avoid the implant. We didn't have much success with this but my puppy was also mouth and head shy so we didn't want to create any stress on him that might make this worse as we were working on teaching him to accept handling. If your dog doesn't mind it, you might have good success workign the teeth out and avoiding the issue. My vet also had a standard that had this issue and the adult teeth naturally came in correctly without having to be worked out so you might get lucky. Alas, we didn't.

The implant cost around $2000 so it's not cheap but it does work if you need to go that route. Find a good dental specialist that's done them before. It was actually very impressive how it was made and what a good job it did with his bite.

Ruby here also has a puppy that had this similar issue. Her dentist used a slightly different program than ours did...using more of a braces type solution before the adult teeth came in. She documented here on this site with photos. I believe it was also a costly procedure.

It won't have any effect on his long term health, but it caused him a great deal of discomfort as a young puppy before we got the baby teeth pulled and it was a very expensive fix. I wouldn't knowingly buy a puppy that had this again.
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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An overbite in a 10 week old puppy will probably get worse as the puppy gets older. However it will not affect her health. This is a genetic problem, and most reputable breeders want to know, so they can look at the puppies pedigree and determine where it is coming from, so they can avoid it in the future.

The bottom teeth coming in the roof of the mouth is caused by the lower jaw being too narrow or the teeth angled in, instead of out. Pushing the lower canines out several times daily, taking teeth out, or filing them will usually correct this in the baby teeth. I have seen that the adult teeth usually come in where they should. This is not a genetic problem.

Bad bites are becoming more of a problem now days, as more breeders/handlers are FIXING the bad bite, so you do not know what you are truly breeding too. That is why it is so important to have a good mentor and study pedigree's. Some people, are about WINNING at any cost, and if they have to fix stuff, they do to win, (we call these Fanciers). I know of one bitch being Specialed now that has had her bite fixed (along with several litter mates) and collegen injected into her chin. Shame on the Owner and Handler.

What happens, is this is passed along, and then the "companion" owner has the expense of dealing with it. I hope you had a good guarentee with the puppy.
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm with you, Ziggylu, I would not want to go through canine base narrow correction again!!! (We spent almost 3000.00 on correcting this problem for Ruby!) One of the biggest issues with the correction process (we used braces) was the fact that Ruby was not allowed anything to chew!! Trying to keep a puppy happy when they aren't allowed to chew is no easy task!!!!!
Braces also put a glitch in my plans on raw feeding! I chose to continue kibble (softened of course) until the braces came off and gradually transitioned to hard kibble over a few weeks. Did not want to start raw feeding until Ruby had spent some time chewing toys so she could build up her jaw strength!
Believe me, I know NOW that CBN is another key issue to rule out on a potential puppy!
I
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Mia had linguoverted mandibular canines - basically, the lower canines were digging into her upper jaw. The vet removed her puppy canines, and warned us that we might have the same problem with her adult canines. He recommended "ball therapy," which apparently just means give your dog stuff to chew on. So I did: bones, bully sticks, toys, puppy-sized tennis balls. Over the next few months, as her adult canines came in, all of the chewing helped to guide her lower canines into the correct position. I was worried for a while, but by the time she was six months old, it was clear that her adult canines came in perfectly.

The vet told me that, although this condition is rare, it is more common in poodles because they are bred to have long, thin muzzles. The breeders here on PF will know more.

Here are the photos from the surgery.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stargazerpoodles View Post
I know of one bitch being Specialed now that has had her bite fixed (along with several litter mates) and collegen injected into her chin. Shame on the Owner and Handler.
That is seriously disturbing.

Ziggylu, did your breeder compensate you for this costly treatment? If not, shame on your breeder!!!
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Old 02-18-2011, 06:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaddleAddict View Post
That is seriously disturbing.

Ziggylu, did your breeder compensate you for this costly treatment? If not, shame on your breeder!!!

The breeder told me up front about the teeth when I bought the puppy. She did lower the price of the puppy a bit though the difference didn't cover the costs we incurred in pulling the baby teeth, not to mention the cost of the implant. As we'd agreed up front to lower the price and she disclosed the problem to me up herself when I first looked at the puppy (I would have never thought/known to look for this) I feel that she didn't owe me more...I made an informed decision to buy the puppy and knew that an implant might eventually be needed. We hoped we wouldn't need the implant (as that can often be the case) but unfortunately didn't have such luck.

Had I not known about it up front however, as it seems is the case of the OP, that would be a very different situation.
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Thank you all for your replies. It gives me some idea what is, or could be ahead. I will email the breeder soon. She is a family friend and the puppy was a gift, so no problem with refunding.
Dani is a very sweet puppy and we had no intent to breed, only a sweet family pet. We will do what it takes to make her comfortable but probably won't do expensive braces, etc. The next time I'm in town will pick up racket balls for her. Our vet also said if she is playing with and carrying the balls around it would help guide the permanent teeth out.

We are feeding raw too, with a little kibble to supplement. This brings up the question of chews. What do you guys recomment? With our Airedale... who is now nearly 9 years old... we gave her cow hooves. She cracked two molar teeth, we didn't know it.... got an absess and had to have those two teeth pulled. All in all over $1,000.00 vet bill. So... what would be best? Some say pigs ears... some say no pig ears. Some say bully sticks... we have used them in the past, but they are very smelly. I want to stay with the "raw/natural" chews.

Thanks again. You have given me much to think about.
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