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Old 03-13-2012, 04:32 AM   #31 (permalink)
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you're incorrect JE-UK the test was performed yesterday March 12th, her BIRTHDATE is 2006...

Why would anyone rejoice at the chance for their breed being stolen from the? You're definitely mistaken watch the video...even the best puppy owner said that she can't believe that they're doing this crap...I can't wait to see the entries next year, I feel like this was Crufts way of tightening its own noose and it won't be worth anything next year... :]
Very sorry, I misread it.

How is the breed being stolen? The KC is saying that breeding for extremes harms dog, and now they are enforcing this upon breeders and judges that can't/won't change. No one is saying that breeders need to breed out traits that define their breeds, just that those things that have been taken to such an extreme that the dog is no longer healthy will no longer be allowed to win at shows.

Anything that helps dogs live longer, healthier lives is welcome, IMO.

And again, if breeders and clubs can't police themselves, then I don't see that the KC has a choice. Purposefully breeding for a trait that means a dog is in constant pain, can't give birth naturally, can't breathe properly ... these are the crimes, not the KC's actions.
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Old 03-13-2012, 05:16 AM   #32 (permalink)
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The breed is having a chance stolen from it by not letting ANY representative into the group ring! To be perfectly honest NONE of those dogs would have when BIS over the dogs competing but its still absolutely disgusting to me that they weren't allowed to have a breed representative in the groups!

I'm going to stop trying to change peoples minds, it clearly doesn't work and it makes people believe that I want unhealthy dogs bred...so believe what you want but I can tell you that the KC shot themselves in the foot with this one...and when their entries for even SMALL shows starts to go down because of it we'll see if people still feel its a good idea (I've heard rumblings that a huge judge has intentions of starting an alternative kennel club similar to the UKC over here...hopefully its better established and a bit less of a mockery)
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Old 03-13-2012, 05:44 AM   #33 (permalink)
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ukc is a mockery? please explain.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:05 AM   #34 (permalink)
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The breed is having a chance stolen from it by not letting ANY representative into the group ring! To be perfectly honest NONE of those dogs would have when BIS over the dogs competing but its still absolutely disgusting to me that they weren't allowed to have a breed representative in the groups!

I'm going to stop trying to change peoples minds, it clearly doesn't work and it makes people believe that I want unhealthy dogs bred...so believe what you want but I can tell you that the KC shot themselves in the foot with this one...and when their entries for even SMALL shows starts to go down because of it we'll see if people still feel its a good idea (I've heard rumblings that a huge judge has intentions of starting an alternative kennel club similar to the UKC over here...hopefully its better established and a bit less of a mockery)
Keith...that is quite a presumption...that NONE of those dogs had a chance of winning BIS? Isn't it supposed to be that the dog who most closely represents their breed standard wins? No politics, no nonsense...just the best dog wins? So, why wouldn't they have had a chance, if they had passed the vet check, of winning? Are you familiar with the breed standards for all of these breeds?? Basically, your comment just reinforces the idea of politics in the show ring, and if the best dog isn't necessarily given the opportunity to win, then why do most of us even bother in the first place?
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:28 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Really, really, really trying to understand, Keithsomething!

The KC published (in great detail) the approach for the vet checks over a year ago, and it quite clearly says that failing the vet check means losing the BOB and not being able to advance to Group. I don't breed, and don't have close ties to the breed clubs, but I would think that if there were issues with the approach, they should have been raised then. It shouldn't have been a surprise.

The dog declared Best of Breed / Best Any Variety Not Separately Classified from a breed designated by the Kennel Club as a High Profile Breed is not eligible to compete in the Group competition unless it has passed an examination by the Show’s Veterinary Surgeon. The Veterinary check is necessary in order to satisfy the eligibility requirements for the Group competition.

Q. If the dog fails the check, is it still Best of Breed?
A. No, for High Profile Breeds confirmation of the Best of Breed award is dependent on a successful Veterinary check.


It appears that the breed clubs may have felt the vet checks would be a token exercise and weren't really concerned that the KC was serious. Which is unfortunate for individuals who were disappointed, but I still don't see how the vet checks damage the breeds.

Personally, I think the time for monopolistic kennel clubs may be past. I, for one, would love to see alternative registries, especially if they were focused on form and function rather than appearance. Like fjm says, if we could show poodles in a low-maint clip, I'd be in!
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:50 AM   #36 (permalink)
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I'm going to stop trying to change peoples minds, it clearly doesn't work and it makes people believe that I want unhealthy dogs bred...
Good decision, Keith. I would also suggest that people stop trying to change Keith's mind - this is one of those situations where we should agree to disagree.

Speak your truth quietly and clearly - maybe someone's mind will change - but the more you bash them over the head with logic, the less they're willing to listen.

It is my opinion that anything that will result in healthier dogs being bred is a good thing...

Carry on!
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:59 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Personally, I think the time for monopolistic kennel clubs may be past. I, for one, would love to see alternative registries, especially if they were focused on form and function rather than appearance. Like fjm says, if we could show poodles in a low-maint clip, I'd be in!
I'm for that!!

Does London have any Sporting titles?
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Old 03-17-2012, 04:14 AM   #38 (permalink)
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One of the independent vets at Crufts has issued a statement (and a really thoughtful, considered one). I can't imagine the level of abuse she must be getting.

News >Dog World >Dog World Home >Dogworld
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:21 AM   #39 (permalink)
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"Personally, I see nothing wrong in the ethical production of pedigree dogs, except perhaps for the argument that there aren’t enough good homes out there for the dogs there are already.."

Well, I don't agree with all her sentiments, but it is comforting to know that at least she's not throwing out the baby with the bathwater! But it is a slippery slope..
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Old 03-17-2012, 06:46 AM   #40 (permalink)
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One of the independent vets at Crufts has issued a statement (and a really thoughtful, considered one). I can't imagine the level of abuse she must be getting.

News >Dog World >Dog World Home >Dogworld
Well when you sign on to bar a whole breed (from your singular opinion alone) from competing in group I think you better be prepared for the sh*tstorm coming your way...
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