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Agility - Sharing the ups and the downs

86K views 793 replies 46 participants last post by  Quossum 
#1 ·
For those that are training in agility - whether it be in your backyard or competing at the excellent level I thought it would be nice to have a thread to talk about the ups and challenges that we all experience.

As an introduction - I am relatively new to agility - started actual training classes this summer and fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Right now I'm training my toy poodle Bella and are working on foundation skills with two Mini Aussies. I have found a couple really good trainers and can't wait for the seminars to start again - hope to be ready to actually train not just audit.

As someone new to agility we really celebrate the small things - a new skill means a jackpot and today we celebrated two! We've been working on going down the A-frame and the dog walk. Today Bella not only offered but was excited about performing the entire A-frame and the dog walk!!! This might not sound like much but this is huge for tiny Bella!

Our continuing struggle is with what many dogs love - the scary tunnel. Bella has decided this to be avoided at all costs even walking near it is tough. And going inside... not even for cheese :-(

Any suggestions on working through this would be much appreciated!
 
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#28 ·
My instructor is also a believer in positive training. She would have not left the training on a note where your dog is frightened of an obstacle. Basically shoving your dog up the obstacle does not teach her anything. The first time Swizzle went up the A frame he did not make it up and he slid back. So we made it easier. We put him near the top and coaxed him with lots of treats until he did the rest himself. He felt very proud of himself at receiving lavish praise and lots of treats. On the next run she had me put him on a lead for the A frame and he did the whole thing. Once he got the hang of it and realized he needed some speed to do it he was fine. I do not like your instructor's approach. If an obstacle is too hard or scary it should be broken down to bits your dog can succeed with. That will give you a happy confident dog who will trust you when you show him an unfamiliar obstacle. I would wait for another class. It sounds like your current instructor will give your dog issues. I think you were smart getting your former instructor help you tackle that obstacle again and get more confidence for Bella.
 
#29 ·
Well put about breaking the performance of a complex obstacle down into small success stories CT girl. Agility training should never be anything other than positive and well rewarded. Otherwise you won't have reliable performance of those obstacles in a trial.

I see too many dogs that really don't seem to like what they are doing when at agility yet their handlers keep working it. The handler gets more and more frustrated and the dog gets more and more nervous and insecure. I've seen one person at a number of trials whose dog does one or two jumps at the most before the dog just runs off and sniffs its way around the ring. What's that about? This handler is happy with that performance. Why is this person entering this dog? Why do they think this is good for their relationship with the dog? No wonder the rate of qualifying runs is low (less than 50%). I have had any number of NQ runs, but I accept responsibility for them in my handling. If I thought we NQd because Lily was nervous or afraid we wouldn't do this anymore.
 
#30 ·
This something that I struggle with a little as well. Max is timid in class and part of why I am doing this is to build his confidence. I have taken the advise given here that this needs to be a fun experience for the two of us. I try to keep it light and low pressure on him. As the class proceeds, I will need to decide if this is something that Max is interested in doing.

For right now it is fun to see him try new things.
 
#31 ·
Enzo is 11 months and loves his agility class. He is on a leash and the instructor is great. She limits any repetitive jumping and the class is always positive. Enzo always hated to wait his turn and he would bark as if to tell the others to hurry. He loves tunnels and high things. But he is a real jumper at home. I think it is an alternative to obedience which reinforces what he learns while having fun. We have to decide whether to continue agility or try something else.
 
#32 ·
I didn't mean to suggest that I thought anyone here was pushing their poodle too hard in agility. The dog I was referring to as always bailing on its handler is not a poodle. I just think it is important that we remember we are asking a lot of them to do this sport and we have to keep them safe and happy. Lily loves it but Peeves hates it. It is all individual.
 
#33 ·
Thank you all for your comments I can't say how much the support means!!! We live in a rural area with very limited facilities. Our previous instructor has a building in which we can work on things like small tunnels, chutes, targeting, jump angles, etc. The contact equipment though is only outside though so we can only work in good weather. I have signed up for private classes the rest of the month to help bring back a happy - confident Bella.

We went to an agility trial today held by a group that we took classes with this past fall and had a chance to talk about the situation. Their reaction was disgust as agility is supposed to be all positive and would work lowered contacts until the dog is very confident - especially with a tiny novice dog. Before this happened we were already signed up for classes with this group and they highly suggested that we just work at home until classes start in January. This is a longer drive - about 1.15 mins compared to 45 mins but seems very much worth it - only trouble is that if the roads are bad we won't be able to go.

So what would you do? Work at home (we don't have contacts) or go to the class with the not so positive atmosphere until the new classes start to continue to work on contacts?
 
#34 ·
Work at home. There is no point in going back to a place and person that stressed Bella out and that clearly you are stressed about as well.

You can make a contact trainer for use at home to teach two on two off if that is your exit criterion at this point (or whatever your exit criterion is). Get a piece of heavy duty plywood about one foot wide and four feet long. Glue or nail reinforcing strips of 1 x 2 to one side (running the long way) and thin strips of flat molding to the other spaced like the "steps" you see on a dog walk ramp. Paint the whole thing with exterior grade latex to which you have added a generous amount of anti skid granules. You then lean this onto a steady elevated surface at whatever angle you want to work on your contact exit (will most resemble dog walk, but will be translatable to see saw and A frame). Start shallow and get it steeper gradually. Work from both sides. This will be helpful as a substitute for having contact obstacles in your yard. I don't have contacts other than a home-made table and the item I just described to you either.
 
#35 ·
Interesting thread. I am also new to agility, and has just last month started to compete as my toy poodle was over 18 months. I started agility training – mostly jumps and tunnel work – when Cassi was 10 months. I was also concerned about the growth plates that need to close. For smaller breeds it is usually between 6 – 13 months. I spoke to my vet before I started jumping; he said that my dog’s weight has been constant since 8 months (3.9kg = 8.5lbs) and that it safe to start.

My poodle is very eager to train and has a great focus!! He can already do most of the obstacles, still need some work on the long jump, floppy tunnel and see saw, he performs them, but with caution. From my experience, when training a new obstacle, is to take it slow, as one bad experience can mess it up. Cassi was very good with the see saw, but he had a bad experience when he jumped off it too soon, and the bang scared him. He would still go on it, but not enough to tip it. I worked at it, positive reinforcing by use of clicker – as well as him doing the walk down, before up and down part together. At my recent trial, he surprised me with running all the way to the tip – I was so surprised, I just told him to “wait” so that it will touch the ground and away we go!! And we got a clear round!!:cheers2:

Regarding weave pole training, I used what’s called the channel method. I think someone mentioned it earlier. It really works great if your dog has speed. Cassi is very fast, and the traditional in-out method that my trainer suggested, was just not working, Cassi got frustrated and ended up barking at me! So I did some research and trained at home. After a month, he was doing 12 weave poles perfectly; I am only practicing my weave pole entries now – there a nice document covering that on clean run.

Contacts, is the two-on two-off method. Works good, but I find that Cassi slows down a lot on it, and barks at me. So I have changed my tactics from giving him the touch command on the contacts, and when he gets to contact area, I hold him there for a split second before I release him. Any comments?

Two great books that helped me a lot are “The Beginner's Guide to Dog Agility” and “The Intermediate's Guide to Dog Agility” by Laurie Leach. They are fantastic and available on Amazon.
 
#36 ·
Catherine - Thank you for the voice of sanity - safe and positive only for my girls! And thank you for the suggestion of the contact trainer we'll be making one this weekend.

Poodlenatic - Welcome! Love your dog's name - we had an Aussie named "Cassie" that we lost over a year ago - Your post made me think of her and how much she loved us and we loved her! You are way ahead of us and I really appreciate your post about training with your toy.
 
#37 ·
Poodlenatic, congratulations on your clean run. I also trained weaves with channel weave poles. It took a while, but I am now getting very pretty weaves.

Minnie, you can make lots of stuff at home for yourself. My table is homemade too. PVC pipe and plywood from the warehouse store make it pretty affordable too. I am slowly adding competition quality equipment as I see the need and have the $$$. In the spring I plan to get a see saw, but will probably leave that as the only contact obstacle I get. It isn't so big that it will overwhelm my yard which is fairly large, but has a pool and decks plus garden beds around the edge. I am lucky to have an indoor facility where I can rent the agility floor fairly inexpensively, along with the private people I work with. I am so glad to hear that you have decided not to work with the person who coerced Bella over the A frame, that just isn't how it should be.
 
#38 ·
Last night was our third agility class. Not quite as good as last time but OK. The biggest issue that Max faces in class is shyness and fear of the obstacles. He does well with obedience training and is good at learning the various required moves.

We did the weave pole which he has done before. The first time he balked but was able to work through this and maneuvered the weave poles pretty well. The tunnel was a different story. Last class he went through the collapsed and slightly expanded tunnel without too much coaxing. Last night he would sprint through a straight tunnel with his tail down. No amount of coaxing would get him through the tunnel with a slight curve. Even though he could see me!

He tends to hesitate at each obstacle and may preform after a few repetitions. Added to this is his shyness around most people that can distract him and affect his performance with the trainers in the class. There are about ten dogs in the class.

We are certainly not ready to throw in the towel. Max is a smart dog that likes to run and jump around the house so agility seemed to be a good outlet for him. I want him to become more comfortable around different people and increase his confidence. It is not important that Max becomes proficient in agility and I don't want to put him in a position that he becomes more stressed.

I am too new to this to know what to expect for a learning curve and what to expect from Max. This is a beginner class and I think the socialization is good for Max but at some point I need to decide whether he is cut out for agility. I would be curious to here how others experiences compare to mine.

Thanks
 
#39 ·
This is all very new to him. When something is new, scary, or difficult I use a LOT of fabulous treats. If he is getting overwhelmed with too many obstacles skip a few. Embrace the straight tunnel and when his tail goes up then have him try a curved tunnel. I have a somewhat shy dog and agility class has done wonders for his confidence. Most people expect far too much too soon. Keep things fun and before you know it he will love class.
 
#40 ·
Specman, don't ask too much too fast. It will be much harder to get Max back onto an obstacle that has scared him than to help him get it right and be happy with it through your patience and happy support. It took me about a year and a half to get to the point where I have gotten results at trials with Lily.

Right now you should use it as a chance to do some relationship building and to help Max with his shyness. CT Girl's advise about embracing small results is good. Whether you go on to compete together or not doesn't matter nearly so much as you and Max enjoying the time you spend together and using this as a chance to enrich his life. Have fun, keep it upbeat and be safe.
 
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#41 ·
Thanks for the words of encouragement! It was good to here. When I see other dogs going through the obstacles with ease I worry about Max being overwhelmed.

CT, thanks for the advice, it sounds like agility did for your dog what I am looking for Max.

Lily, thanks for the words of encouragement.
 
#42 ·
I know this is a $ splurge, but I have been doing private agility training with a young woman who is awesome. She has already put MACHs on more than one dog and she is only about 20 (been competing since she was about 11). Anyway, we had a great hour with her yesterday. The benefits are at least as important for me in my handling as they are for Lily in her skills. She knows all obstacles, but I sometimes let us down in my handling. The private time is really helping us. I started doing this based on a conversation with local people I know who are successful agility handlers. We were at a big cluster (rally, obedience, agility, breed) late late spring. I was expressing frustration at feeling stuck at a plateau that wan't really competition ready, even though I had been going to what is rated as a competition level class for months. Both of my friends strongly suggested doing privates with one or the other of two people (I've actually gone to both of them, but the one I work with more often is closer to me and has a schedule that works better with mine).

We had a really great lesson yesterday and I feel very optimistic about finishing akc novice jumpers at our next trial (soon) based on how things went yesterday. If you have a really good handler who you see around and can swing it I really recommend trying some private lessons.
 
#43 ·
What a great post Catherine and congrats on the encouraging lesson!

Even a beginner can really benefit from private lessons. I have a local instructor that MACH with her dogs many years ago - she no longer competes but is a wealth of knowledge!

Must have been a day to get back with classes because I also had a lesson with her yesterday. We had a major breakthrough!!! My scardey cat Bella actually was learning to love the chute!!! It was a jackpot moment!!! She still hesitates at some tunnels but was pushing her way through a very long completely closed chute and eventually was doing this as part of a combination. This was just huge for us and we really celebrated! She also is starting to send ahead on jumps / tires rather than looking back to me if I get the obstacle name out in time.

A week from today we start group lessons with a club that has indoor contact equipment - Bella has been off these for almost a month so I'm concerned but hopeful.

Happy Holidays and Happy Training Everyone!!!
 
#44 ·
Wow,

Great to here about everyone's hard work and success! I don't know that I will ever be at the level of you guys but, I enjoy working with Max and see him learn new things. We have been off for the holidays and back to class next Thursday. We have been practicing some fundamental move that I understand are necessary for agility.
 
#45 ·
There are definitely some over achievers on this forum - they must look like poetry in motion - but it is a great activity for us beginners too. If you have the opportunity a private lesson is a great idea. There are so many subtle things that go into successful handling it is great to have an expert give pointers just for you.

Minnie how great that you had a breakthrough with the chute. Swizzle has started this recently and he does it but not with gusto. I think I am going to pull it taut so he can get a glimpse of me till he is more comfortable with this.

I started 2x2 weave pole training today and it went great. We will have to see what happens when it is 4 poles instead of 2 - fingers crossed.
 
#46 ·
I have to say that the privates are at least as much to reduce my clutzy handling as to improve Lily's performance. I sort of feel like in for a penny in for a pound about this all at this point. I have taken many classes and spent lots of time feeling stuck, so I decided to go this route to get some measurable results (qualifying legs and titles). I guess it is the scientist in me, the scores and titles are like data evidence for all the work we've done! I am glad to hear of Bella's success and hope that everyone else has a great 2013 working with their lovely poodles.

I think that the most important thing to remember with agility is that is should be fun and build your relationship with your dog. Just because I am sort of obsessed with the titles doesn't actually mean they are the most important part of why I do the things I do with my sweet girly girl.
 
#47 ·
NEVER Give Up! :)

We have 6 standard Poodles and two Border Collies. When I started agility 12 years ago, I had no clue (nor did my first instructor! LOL). We fumbled along up through the classes. I tried many different instructors before finding the one we still go to today. We have been with her for more than 10 years now! She is very picky and that is what helps us to achieve the things we have with our agility dogs.
I think that private lessons are MORE important for beginners than seasoned competitors! Foundation in agility means everything! I often see novices put in charge of teaching the beginners when it should be the BEST instructors doing that.
Our four older standard Poodles have 16 MACHs (AKC championships) and 2 ADCH titles (USDAA championships- we don’t do much USDAA) amongst them. Our oldest SP, 13 years old now, retired just four double Qs short of her 8th MACH and our 8 year old SP is working on MACH 7. This is because of GREAT instruction!
Our two youngest SPs suffer from severe stress in the ring. I ran their mum and she was the same (I did manage to put two MACHs on her in spite of it). When I bred her, I assumed she was that way because she was basically a rescue that had been abused. Now I know different .
TO give you hope if you have a fearful dog, when my young dog started, she had ZERO drive to work, no focus at all and hated anything to do with training, toys or balls. I worked very hard. Last spring she wouldn’t even leave the start line! Then I got her to do that but she would do one jump and run the fence looking for a way out of the ring. It was horrible. I left many trials in tears! I went to lots of fun runs where I could take her favorite ball (yes she learned to love them) in with me and made it fun. Then I would do ONE jump, leave and celebrate! She really came around (I never thought she would).
Here is a video of her form yesterday picking up her 7th MXJ leg and running a whopping 5.64 yards per second even though she had two very wide turns. NEVER give up on a dog! If you make it fun, they will respond! We NEVER EVER use corrections in our training!

PS. We use the 2x2 weave training method to train our dogs. My husband and I filmed it for Susan G and he edited it and put in the graphic and music so perhaps I am biased, but there is no better way to train weave poles! 
 
#49 ·
There aren't too many things prettier than a spoo on a jumpers course!
 
#50 ·
Helen, thank you for the great video. No one looking at that would ever think your dog ever had fear/confidence issues as she seems so happy and confident as she blazes through the course. I hope Swizzle gets to that point. He has made amazing progress and I will never give up. Who knows what will happen when we go to a trial but we are having a lot of fun together and even I am not the total klutz I was before.

You and your husband did a great job on the 2x2 video. It is so well shot I can see everything Susan and the dog are doing unlike many agility videos on the market. I keep watching sections of it over and over as it is really helping me. No wonder your dog is amazing in the weave poles.
 
#51 ·
So glad you like the video.
Thank you for your kind words regarding my dog.
The most important thing is to never ever be disappointed in your dog.
EVERYTHING our dogs do is a reflection of their training and understanding of their behaviors.
Once I let go of judging my dog and took full responsibility for her behaviors, we really made progress.
I never correct in my agility training and always have fun with it.
:)
 
#52 ·
Jility - That video was wonderful thhe joy is just so visible!!! Thank you so much for sharing!

We attended our first class with the new club - it's about a 1 hr drive but well worth it! There are 3 instructors (2 agility and 1 obedience) in a class of 6 dogs/handlers. I don't think I can explain how much difference attending class with instructors that believe in positive training makes!!! Bella did very well in some areas and we have a long way to go in others... We worked on back training the A-Frame due to her scare and by the end of the class she was happily running down - going up will come with time.

Our main struggle in this class is a reliable stay. Bella will do a sit or down stay if I don't move but as soon as I move she does which is a problem in class. The obedience instructor worked with us on this after class and it will be our focus area this week.

Happy training everyone :dog:
 
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