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Old 02-21-2013, 03:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Class not so "force free". :(

Thanks, Everyone.

I'm definitely going to call the trainer & let her know how I'm feeling. I'll see how the conversation goes.

This situation is further complicated by the fact that the classes are held in a friend/fellow volunteer's doggie daycare/grooming shop. I guess I should also talk with him...

I am getting more upset at each class, it's true. I had hoped that the leash popping was going to be the worst of it... But last night I just couldn't believe it. I kept looking from owner to owner while she was demonstrating the anti-jump & forced down like, "REALLY - are you ok with that?!?". They seemed to be. I seriously considered walking out.

Thanks again for the support, Everyone. I feel relieved & validated.


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Old 02-21-2013, 04:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msminnamouse View Post
You have to do what you comfortable with. If the class makes you uncomfortable, then you shouldn't put yourself and your dog through that.

I'd get my money back because that's definabley not as advertised.
This is EXACTLY what I did when I found myself in the same situation after the first puppy training class I took Chagall to. I prevailed in getting my money back (the "easy way," my dh is an attorney!). It wasn't about the money, which I turned around and donated to Poodle Rescue. It was to show trainer that her techniques did not fly with me!! I trained Chagall all by myself and he sailed through is CGC. I would not stay in the class for all the reasons already mentioned. And I would make the trainer "feel" the wallop in the her wallet just to be sure you had her attention. That's just me. I'm old and a bit crusty now. When I was younger I would simply have walked quietly away from the class. But I am now more inclined to stand and fight for those, like innocent pups, who are unable to do so for themselves.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:03 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I absolutely agree - run, don't walk, away, take your neighbour with you, and write to the trainer explaining why you are leaving and that you expect a full refund as the classes were not as described, and copy the letter to you friend who runs the establishment. All open and above board. There are, unfortunately, all too may trainers still teaching these methods, but to describe them as Positive or Reward based is either complete ignorance or fraud and misrepresentation - either way, not someone I would trust anywhere near my dog!
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:31 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraRose View Post
holding one jumper's feet high in the air & squeezing while yelling "off" repeatedly (this dog yelped, then avoided the trainer - shocker)
Awww... that's too bad. 'Coz that's my favourite 'anti-jump' training. And I use it a few times a week at the dog park.

Only 'squeezing'??? . . . nope! No squeezing. Yelling??? RoFL, no. Repeating 'off'??? Yup . . . lots!

Gently hold the dog's legs. Grab them so that the paws are still visible outside your hands. U've got a good, firm, but gentle grip on them then.

Then I look them in the eye and and smile at them . . . tell them what a gooooood dog they are . . . talk baby talk to them. Baby talk that includes 'off' a lot. Smiling all the time.

While you're doing this u can watch their expression turn from 'fun' to 'not so much fun' and then to a desire to get away. As soon as they start to struggle u let them go. Repeating 'off' . . lots.

If I saw that dogs were noticeably avoiding me I would stop using this method . . with all dogs. I'm not at the dog park for dogs to avoid me...

A yelp is no big deal with some dogs. Simply their first level of vocal complaint. I've seen mere 'surprise' elicit a yelp.

My rant on 'off' training over . . lol . . it doesn't sound to me like yr comfortable in this class. I'd go with the advice of the rest of the posters and maybe find somewhere else.
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Just curious, was force free spelled ForceFree with a "TM" at the end?
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:30 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Class not so "force free". :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by msminnamouse View Post
Just curious, was force free spelled ForceFree with a "TM" at the end?
I chose this trainer by name referral from aforementioned friend/fellow Dobe rescue volunteer who owns the doggie daycare/grooming locale where classes are held. I never saw any literature or website.
I initially spoke with the trainer on the phone for 15 minutes or so, asked her many questions & she had all the right answers. (I also phone interviewed 3 others.)

I researched area trainers today & plan to call some tomorrow. I'll be calling the current trainer tomorrow, as well.

I want training to be a mutually enjoyable time of bonding for Lula & I.
I read all these books & feel so excited by their methods - I just have to find the classes to match.
Pat Miller, Ian Dunbar, et al - where are you?

Will update when I have news.
Thanks again.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:14 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Class not so "force free". :(

I'm very interested in this trainer:
http://dreamdogsonline.com/aboutus.htm
Though it's a 1 hour drive (each way), I'd make the 12 week commitment.
This lady is certified by Pat Miller & Victoria Stilwell. How cool is that?

I'll call her tomorrow.


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Old 02-21-2013, 09:21 PM   #18 (permalink)
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And she took classes with Karen Pryor. I wonder if she does clicker training too.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:00 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Great LauraRose! I follow the school of thought of asking for an "incompatible behavior," so if my poodle were to jump up (he did come full equipped with springs in his rear legs!) I would ask for, and get, a "sit." I think it's wise that you're considering an "incompatible behavior" here yourself by declining to adhere to a training program for Lula that doesn't feel quite right to you. I learned to actually go and audit a training class before forking over the enrollment fee and signing up. Hope all the support you've received here helps you feel more comfortable with the action you'll be taking.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:43 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Class not so "force free". :(

Well I called the current/former trainer. I told her I've been uncomfortable in class & feel bad for inviting my neighbors. She was quite rude. I asked for a refund. She's sending one, prorated.
Now to call my friend who owns the class location. :-/

A friend of mine (who has 2 Goldens & a Dobe) gave me the name of this trainer:
http://petsinmotion.net/who-we-are/anne-holiday/
I've left a message for her.
Pets in Motion offers tons of classes, which I'd enjoy.

So, the hunt is on for a new trainer for my Lula.


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