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15 week old puppy biting and growling

42K views 70 replies 19 participants last post by  msminnamouse 
#1 ·
I need some help with my spoo. She is 15 weeks old and we have had her since she was 7 weeks old(I know now that I should have waited until 8 weeks...didnt know then). We have had problems with her biting since she was about 8 weeks old. We have tried everything in the book but now that she has really started teething she is even worse. She bites hard even after 8 weeks of bite inhibition training. We have taken her around many people and she bites all of them. So she cannot even be properly socialized because we have to pull her away from everyone because she wont stop biting them HARD! We are taking her to a puppy class starting Jan 3rd. I am only taking her because I am hoping being around other dogs and people will calm her down. Other than the biting she is perfect, she is pretty much housebroke, knows sit, down, come, and turn in a circle. Will this ever end?! I am afraid she will never be reliable around other people! HELP!!!!
 
#2 ·
How are you doing the bite inhibition training? I do think it is easier to manage if the pup has spent enough time with her siblings to have learned the basics - was she by any chance one of a small litter?

If the basic scream-and-turn-away every time the teeth hurt is not working, you may need to institute a brief time out. I used to mutter long, pained rigmaroles to myself about how much it hurt, and I was not going to play with horrible bitey pups, and generally behaved like a grumpy six year old. Then after a few seconds when the pup was sitting back and staring at me, I would start the game again, all bright and fun until the next nip, and the next withdrawal. But mine were small, and got the message very quickly.

How is she when taking treats? Is the nipping just out of excitement when playing and greeting, or is she using it to protect her space and get people to leave her, or her possessions, alone?
 
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#3 ·
What type of bite inhibition training are you doing? I used Ian Dunbar's method and it works like a charm. Now, even when Laszlo is excited, playing tug or something, he is gentle with his mouth. When there is the least sting, usually due to accidental contact, and I say "Ouch," he immediately sits and waits for permission to recommence play.

Your dog needs to know that when she bites too hard, the fun stops. If she is biting hard, do NOT try to stop all mouthing. Let her mouth you, but when she actually hurts you, yelp "Ouch!" Make her stop playing, perform a sit, a down and a come or "touch" and then start playing again. If she bites too hard in the same play session, end the game immediately, and maybe confine her for a few minutes behind a baby gate or something as a time out. That way she learns that when she hurts you, the fun is over. Also, a puppy playgroup would be great. The other puppies will let her know when she has crossed the line, she'll have fun and you'll be able to spare your arms!
 
#4 ·
Thank you for your responces so far. To work with bite inhibition I have done the following:
-used a high pitched yelp(I also used many other pitches to see if any would work)
-growled at her(this one worked for a little while and then stopped)
-ignored her for a little while
-told her NO BITE and held her mouth
-gave her a different command and then try to pet her again(didn't work)
- held the top of her mouth under her teeth so she bites herself (she didn't even care)
- rewarded her when she wasn't biting
-put bitter apple on my hands

I am afraid I will never have a dog I can trust not to bite people-when she bites she actually does damage-she can really hurt someone(I have cuts and teeth punctures all over my skin). This is really not great because I wanted to train her to be a therapy dog. I have trained dogs in the past who have let little kids hold them and sleep on them as a pillow when they are older. I am not new to training. I just can't seem to get this biting under control. I have never had a SPOO before, just mixed breeds and a toy poodle that I got from a backyard breeder before I knew better(that was the best dog, he let kids hold him in any way and he loved it...even toddlers would play with him). Is this problem common around SPOO's?

She knows the command off but blows me off when she is biting me.
 
#5 ·
Here are my two cents, based on very little experience, but a lot of reading. Hopefully people who know more what they are talking about more will chime in soon.

I would stop the growling and mouth holding, as that may work her up further. I also wouldn't use the bitter apple, as you want her to like getting food and toys from your hand.

I would combine the yelping with a down-stay for a good 5 seconds. Putting her in a down will reinforce her deference to you. Then play more. You've got to do this every time. Make her wait until you say it's okay to play again. If she leaves the down-stay, keep putting her back into it until she stays there. It may take several reps if she is keyed up but it'll eventually work.

If she keeps biting and won't stop, put her by herself for 5-10 minutes in a long-term confinement area. I would NOT use a crate for this, but that's just me.

Have you had a chance to look at the link I put in before? DogStar Daily is a great resource. I'm telling you, our mini was super mouthy as a puppy, and after we followed Dr. Dunbar's method, he's as good as gold as far as mouthing and biting are concerned. The key is, you want to reduce the pressure of the bites BEFORE you get the dog to stop biting entirely. Otherwise, she's an accident waiting to happen.
 
#6 ·
I did not deal with mouthing at all with my poodle puppy, but our terrier was quite the mouther. He learned to stop through two methods, which we used consistently. It may take a bit to get results, but we would redirect his mouthing to a toy and we would praise him and reward his urge to bite being directed to the proper outlet. Second thing we would do would be end the fun. If he kept biting, we would put our hands behind our backs and not look at him, the attention would just stop. He figured out pretty fast that no one was going to play with him if he kept butting fingers and feet etc in his mouth.
 
#7 ·
I agree with LegalEagle about Ian Dunbar's methods. Ouch when it hurts and stop the play. Make the pup do something (sit or down) as a calming time out activity. I didn't see an answer to fjm's question about the size of the litter your pup is from. I think a very small litter where your pup didn't have enough rough and tumble time with many siblings is more of an issue than taking the puppy at seven weeks instead of eight. Don't delay dealing with this! Read Ian Dunbar about developmental windows of opportunity.
 
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#8 ·
Thank you for all of your replies! I tried the ouch and turn away again. Then giving her a command after five seconds. This actually helped a lot! I tried this before when she was younger but maybe now that she is a little older she is understanding what I am telling her a little bit. The real challenge is going to be seeing if it works with others. My friend has a Golden Retreiver Puppy who is the same age as mine...born 3 days apart, and she is having the same problem. That makes me feel like hopefully she will continue to get better and grow out of it with our help. She was from a litter of 9 puppies. I did read that retreivers tend to be more mouthy and she comes from a line of strong retreiving poodles. I am really hoping that the puppy class and getting her to see that meeting new people isnt such a big deal is what really helps end this though because we still have a long way to go.
 
#9 ·
Actually now that I am thinking about it Lily was really mouthy and would give puppy bites lots when she was about that age. She is a die hard retriever, so maybe that is part of the explanation. I think having her and Peeves being around the same age helped. They reminded each other about bite inhibition. Maybe your pup and the friend's golden can have play dates where you let them rough house a bit, with proper supervision to disengage if it gets too excited.

I'm glad to hear you feel you are making progress. Keep at it.
 
#10 ·
milliesmom: My mpoo came to live with us when he was 9 weeks old. From about 12 weeks on he was the mouthiest pup I'd had in 40 years of owning dogs. He was one in a litter of four. I did pretty much what LegalEagle suggested. First though I had to jettison my visible frustration with my chomping pup, and then prevail upon everyone who had contact with him to be as consistent with his training as I was endeavoring to be. THAT was the hardest part! (My dh was the worst offender, he could not restrain himself from playing "poke a finger in the pup's face and watch him nip." Small wonder I had a biter, eh?!)

I also found that striking the right balance between giving my pup enough exercise, but not too much, which would amp him up and make him more bitey, was key. I saw the pattern; if he was too excited or tired but unwilling to settle, he nipped more. Redirecting him, withdrawing attention and reinforcing when he used his mouth appropriately ultimately paid off. There are still sleeves on some of my sweaters that bear the scars of those early days, but happily I now have a poodle with a reliably soft mouth who gently takes treats and food out of hand and never lays teeth on anyone. You might want to try hand-feeding your pup for a while. And then putting her food in a treat ball or puzzle so she has to work for it, it's great mental exercise. If you're not already doing it, you might also try instituting a firm but fair program of Nothing In Life Is Free (NILF) to make her work for everything and anything; attention, petting, getting in or out of her crate, etc., by asking a behavior of her (sit, down, etc.) and having her offer it before she gets what she wants. Good luck taming "the shark.":clover:
 
#11 ·
Wow.. I hadnt noticed that Lou is a bit mouthy really... Until I read this... She doesnt bite hard at all, but sometimes she will try to hold your hand in her mouth in between canine teeth while licking it.. LOL. I feel that in her case its because she doesnt have arms to hug u, and she is so happy to see u, she wants to taste your hands and old it... Hehe she is 7 months old now, but I got her when she was 3.5 months old, she had plently of time to play with siblings, but she is just one excited beast when someone she knows walks in the house, not just love bites, but running in circles and gently jumping on them ( not putting weight ob front paws) we are workin on all this. About the biting since day1 I was VERY clear about rules, ANY time she did something/ or was about to do something wrong a firm AH-AH!! or NO! was said, so she has been an amazingly well behaved dog except for these 2 excitement related things. So when she bit in the beginning I did the ouch or the sound of a yelp of a puppy, she immediately stopped and started lucking my face and wagging her tail like "Im sorry, Im sorry.." rhe sound of a puppy cry + ouch worked better for us, she still likes to mouth hands but way gentler - sorry i typed so much!! Whew!!


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#12 ·
To reinforce some of what has already been said we know this is a really important issue. Part of Ian Dunbar's puppy training method is to make them work for all their food. You hand feed some of it in your training work. The rest should be given in a stuffed kong. This way pup learns not to bite the hand that feeds and also learns to direct chewing at something appropriate instead of your furniture, shoes etc. If I had known all this when Lily and Peeves were puppies I might not have had such issues with her or have had to spackle the corners of many walls where they both chewed them. "Run, don't walk" to dogstardaily.com and get those books (What to do before/after you get your puppy)! They are free.
 
#13 ·
Thanks for good advice!

I just wanted to say thanks to the original poster and everyone who's offered advice. We've been working with our 3 month old spoo puppy since 8 weeks on bite inhibition, and even though I feel like we're making progress using the "ouch" and turn away methods and "sit" calm down breaks, I still feel myself getting frustrated when we're playing (and he's excited) and he gets nippy. So, it's really helpful for me to know that (a) we're not alone with this behaviour! and (b) persistence with our training should eventually pay off (i.e. we're using good methods, but I need to keep my expectations realistic and expect to keep up the training for another few months, too).

For me,personally, I think keeping my expectations of my young puppy realistic is one of the most important and sometimes challenging things.
 
#14 ·
The other thing you have to do (aside from having realistic expectations) is not to get worked up yourself. If you have high energy the puppy will too. One of the things that eventually helped me deal with all the crazy things Lily did when she was little was to learn how to truly be calm around her. You cannot lie to your dog about the mood you are in. If you are stressed so are they. If you are calm they are calm. Realizing this has greatly improved many aspects of my life and allowed me to have insight into why dogs are good for your health.
 
#15 ·
This is such an important topic. Lou I understand what you mean about the soft mouth Han holding but for safety sake a no teeth on skin is a better policy IMO. Visitors may be put off or frightened by this behavior. I had an Aussie. My breeder warned me without proper training they can be very mouthy - that is one technique the use when herding. She told me about yelping and hand feeding and turning away. Zack went from a very bitey puppy to never touching teeth to skin in a relatively short amount of time. He came from a litter of eight and we brought him home at eight weeks. Swizzle only had one litter mate but he almost never mouthed right from the get go. Lily cd re has an excellent point about staying calm. I notice this even in agility and obedience class. When the owner gets wound up so does the dog. People who pause take a breath and center themselves help their dog settle so they can listen.
 
#16 ·
I'm not a big fan of making OUCH noises for most dogs because it can reinforce the biting if you become a squeaky toy. If I do use them, I do it in an unexcited tone of voice to indicate that their mouthing is becoming too rough and they need to direct it else where.

Set the dog up for success. Try to head off the biting before it happens. I like to redirect onto a toy. When you have a puppy or a new dog, you need to have these stashed all over the house and even try to carry one on you. When you see that he's going to mouth, stick a toy in his mouth. Toys are a good outlet for mouthing and humans aren't. Reinforce when he self directs onto toys. He should learn that you're off limits to mouth.

Or if you don't mind a bit of gentle mouthing on you, let him gentle mouth on you and when you feel it becoming more, that's when you direct him onto a toy.

We play bitey with Ginger, where she bites our attacking hands and when she gets the urge to really munch and shake, she runs away and grabs a squeaky toy to take out out her urge on. She's learned to reserve gentle mouthing for people and hard urges for toys as an appropriate outlet.

If a dog easily gets over stimulated and mouth crazy, it's best to set a no mouth on at all on humans rule. Toys or chews should be the ONLY outlet for mouthing in this case.

That being said, poodles, especially standard poodles are VERY mouthy dogs. Just a breed characteristic. I frequently have them take me by the hand and just hold my hand while we're walking. It's as gentle as can be. No pulling or chewing involved. Mouthing doesn't have to be a bad thing if you teach, and they can grasp the concept of inhibition. A lot of people don't understand that a dog using their mouth doesn't always equal aggression. They use their mouths like we use our hands. So it's good to teach an off cue if they want to mouth your guests.

Sorry, but holding the muzzle and all that really makes no sense because it can become a fun game of muzzle grab. A lot of dogs love this. And if you do succeed in making it painful or just unpleasant enough, you can teach the dog to bite in self defense. Then they might go right to defensive bites right away, expecting you to do something to make them uncomfortable.
 
#17 ·
I think it is very important that Ouch! signals that the game stops. Dogs are very good at these instant, brief timeouts - I remember as a child Pax was our word meaning we needed to break off to catch breath, or because things were getting too rough, and dogs have signals to convey the same message. Turning away, moving hands etc out of reach, and paying the dog no attention for a few seconds make it clear that painful nips bring the game to an end. Children need careful supervision for just this reason - they are prone to run away squealng and flapping and generally behaving like the most exciting prey object toy imaginable!

My dogs have (at least) two different kinds of yelp when playing - one means "Ouch, that hurt!, and brings the game to an abrupt halt while the other dog makes conciliatory signals, the second seems to be the equivalent of a human giggle, and encourages games of mouth wrestling and gentle bitey bitey. I think Owww! is a sound humans make instinctively that dogs can easily come to recognise as meaning the same as the Ouch yelp they use themselves.
 
#18 ·
CT I agree, we are working on it. She is in a 2 week. Board and train rigjt now (i miss her ) but she already knows mant commands so they will be able to work on advanced and basic things, hope it helps, but just to make it clear: its very gentle when she hold my hand and If I pull a bit she lets go, but I still want that habbit to go away and also the crazy excitement when she sees someone she knows! lol


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#20 ·
Yup! LOVE the place! Above and beyond my expectations, the other few places I checked were indeed scary, but well... Yesterday all the doggies had their picture taken with Santa! Awww ... She looks filthy cause she is having so much fun and went potty in the rain, but they brush her everyday...etc...


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#22 ·
I would have two concerns about board-and-train - firstly, are they using the positive, reward based methods that I would consider essential with a pup, but also secondly, why is it necessary to take a dog away from the owner to be trained in the first place? Training is so much a matter of the relationship between dog and owner that I cannot really understand how a short course with someone else can work in the long term - if the owner is unable or unwilling to put the time and energy into training, surely anything learned will quickly be undermined as soon as the dog gets home? Most of the classes I have taken my dogs to have been at least as much about training the owner as training the dog ....
 
#23 ·
I agree with FJM, the training is just as much for the owners as the dog. It won't do much good if your dog is trained, but you aren't.

My dad adopted a 3 year old female golden retriever this fall, she had advanced obedience training and she is almost a complete spaz/wreck now since they don't seem to be keeping up with it (or exercising her enough-which is crazy since they live on an absolutely HUGE farm with fields, and woods, etc).

I have been working with her a little bit when I can, but she seems to be progressively 'worse' every time I see her.
 
#24 ·
In 3.5 months I have already taught Lou about 25 different commands, (she is a little genious, well a big genious!And I Think she doesnt need to learn much more to be a good well behaved dog LOL) the board and train/play is more for socializing. They introduce 3 new people each day, take them to stores if u want them to, play with many other dogs etc... Do a physical exam each day, for them to get used to being touched anywhere by strangers, brush them etc etc etc,... Lou was attacked by 2 dogs at 4 months of age, so this is mainly to overcome mild fear of dogs, which she has been accomplishing! :-D
 
#25 ·
Lou- There are many board and train programs that are wonderful! I had a toy poodle, who for the life of me, I could not get a reliable recall, and he also had serious separaton anxiety. I tried and tried to train him with no luck for these two things...everything else he was great at. I sent him to a great place 8 hours away to a reputable training program and they trained him for three weeks. The trainer and I spoke regularly and she helped me know how to use the techniques she used. I got my dog back and I was so happy, he would come when called and heel off leash beautifully with many distractions. I think it actually helped him to be taken out of his normal enviornment to learn these new behaviors.
 
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