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Old 01-23-2013, 01:04 PM   #61 (permalink)
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--CT, spanking your kids is good for them.
UMMMMMmmmm...! Says it all, really....!
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Old 05-05-2016, 04:49 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I am going through the biting with Toby. He constantly bites me. Or bites my fleece. I continually give him his bone, kong, toys to divert him. Wondering if it is because when I come home at the end of the day he's already had a full day and is a bit tired. He is excited to see me when I come home, excited to go out side...we try to stay calm but he is still excited. Can't wait until puppy classes start and HE can go with us!!!! (after his last shots on the 20th.)
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Old 05-05-2016, 05:48 PM   #63 (permalink)
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I am going through the biting with Toby. He constantly bites me. Or bites my fleece. I continually give him his bone, kong, toys to divert him. Wondering if it is because when I come home at the end of the day he's already had a full day and is a bit tired. He is excited to see me when I come home, excited to go out side...we try to stay calm but he is still excited. Can't wait until puppy classes start and HE can go with us!!!! (after his last shots on the 20th.)
I give this to training clients and also to people in the online training groups I run. Standard poodles are pretty tenacious nippers.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:41 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Milliesmom, I am so excited you are having great success with your prong collar! As for the rest of you so called, positive only people, you guys could not be more wrong. I have had plenty of success with all three of my poodles with a prong, none of them have turned aggressive. As a matter of fact, my sister has a yellow lab, they let sleep with them, loves them, wants to bite everyone else. I go to plenty of rallies where I see these food geeks giving cheese and all sorts of treats to clog their dogs up. they get into the ring and do a couple of cute tricks and then start wondering where is my food. Yah, food only is stupid. I would not call a prong collar negative, it is a tool that teaches dogs boundaries. I hope all of you people using prongs keep up the good work, and do not let a few stupid people get you down. Keep at it and keep your dogs safe.
Not to be nice here or anything like that but you should probably find another place to hang around.We "Stupid People" don't like hitting dogs prong collars or animal abuse.We also aren't intelligent enough to realize positive reinforcement works for dogs.I however believe some people need their face sprayed with some nice Bear Deterrent if I see them spank a dog..Have a nice day.Some people are cruel on the net because if they did it in real life they'd have no job & their family just might spank their backside.LOL Keeping it one million.
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Old 05-05-2016, 11:15 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I see there is a large degree of miscomprehension of what positive reinforcement is. The addition of a stimulus that increases a behavior.

Positive reinforcement works so well because it *has* to be something the dog wants more of, which they seek to earn from you. I've seen people force their dogs to earn things the dog doesn't value (praise and pats only, mostly) but that's not positive reinforcement, that's a safety signal that a correction isn't currently forthcoming.

Food is just the very tip of the quite large iceberg. Food is not the end all, be all of positive reinforcement, although usually food works very well because A. Dogs, like all of us, have to eat and we ALL work for our food to some degree besides children and pets B. Healthy dogs enjoy food, especially when they get to play with their food (please Google the term "contrafreeloading"), and C. Food can be divided and easily parceled out, making a high rate of reinforcement and frequent training sessions possible (keys to success).

Food can be regular meals, or low calorie treats, or higher calorie treats and reduced meals on training days to compensate for this. Dogs only get fat if their food isn't managed well by their provider, or they have health issues.

The list of positive reinforcements are individualist but possibilities are endless: toys, attention, scratches, Premack Principle (this is one of the most powerful ones right here), sniffing a hydrant, greeting a neighbor, going outside, chasing or being chased, tugging, smelling hunting odor samples, conditioner reinforcers, secondary reinforcers, primary reinforcers, tertiary reinforcers, etc.

The most famous working dog organization, Guide Dog for the Blind, is moving away from punitive training and punitive tools. Most service dog orgs have or are. Even military and police dog departments are. Some entire countries have, and Steve White is quickly becoming a leader in K9/military dog training here in the USA (the USA is behind most countries in training standards).

I'm a service dog trainer myself, I also specialize in rescue animals with severe issues. This is not limited to just dogs, I train many species. They don't make collars for these species, and you won't walk away unharmed or even alive if you attempted to train them how the domestic dog allows themselves to be trained.

Humans have hands and dogs have their mouths. Just like human children, puppies aren't born knowing what's appropriate to their owner/parent and what's not. Puppies play bite. It takes time to learn what their human prefers. Especially since they don't get to spend a lot of time learning bite pressure inhibition from mom and litter mates by the time most are sold.

Every single person I know wants patience, empathy, and to be treated well when they're learning something new, or have an emotional issue they're trying to work through.

Learning and behavior modification, done properly, rarely is instantaneous. Instant means subduing symptomatic behaviors but not addressing WHY they're happening. Learning takes time.

Why we won't extend the same courtesy, that we would want for ourselves, to our animals that we choose to place into our own homes, is beyond me.

Pinch collars work because they hurt. It's simplistic and quick. An "easy fix" that's just a cop out. But it doesn't teach your puppy much beyond the fact that you'll hurt them.

What people feel they should do is up to them, but correctly utilized (it has to be done correctly) positive reinforcement works. And it's pleasant for our dogs, and it's healthier. Chronic distress is very hard on the body. My service dog and love of my life worked up until she was 13. I recently lost her at 15 and my heart is broken, but I can at least find comfort in the fact that she knew that I would never do anything to hurt, scare, or intimidate her.

Personally, I don't like to distress my animals, I'd much rather choose training they enjoy instead. I enjoy it too. I don't enjoy hurting, scaring, or intimidating others. Especially helpless animals and children at my mercy.

If positive reinforcement didn't work for your dog, then I'd suggest hiring a competent force free trainer who can share their expertise with you.
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Old 05-05-2016, 11:16 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Myleen - this is a rather old thread that got a bit controversial in its time - you may be better starting a new thread for advice on puppy biting, or looking at the more recent posts on the topic. There are lots - most pups seem to go through a land shark stage to some extent. I can remember Poppy creeping on her tummy across the bed towards me, eyes gleaming with mischief and jaws snapping open and shut like a clockwork toy. As for her favourite game of nipping my bum as I set off downstairs, the less said the better! Managing puppy biting well is a key part of developing a soft mouth and good bite inhibition, both of which are very, very important life lessons for a dog - some good ideas here Puppy Biting | Dog Star Daily
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Old 05-06-2016, 01:59 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Myleen - this is a rather old thread that got a bit controversial in its time - you may be better starting a new thread for advice on puppy biting, or looking at the more recent posts on the topic. There are lots - most pups seem to go through a land shark stage to some extent. I can remember Poppy creeping on her tummy across the bed towards me, eyes gleaming with mischief and jaws snapping open and shut like a clockwork toy. As for her favourite game of nipping my bum as I set off downstairs, the less said the better! Managing puppy biting well is a key part of developing a soft mouth and good bite inhibition, both of which are very, very important life lessons for a dog - some good ideas here Puppy Biting | Dog Star Daily
Good idea on starting a new thread on puppy biting. I will try to figure out how to start a new thread after work tonight! Thanks!
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Old 05-06-2016, 03:25 AM   #68 (permalink)
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We adopted a grown spoo without any obediencetraning at all, he had been living in a dog pound with other dogs his whole life(he was 2 years old when we got him). Getting a high degree of obedience isnt that complicated, but it does require perserverance. We spend alot of time training, with positive reiforcement only.

We did go a few courses with him, at different dog trainers. But there isnt any magic way with "super dog trainers", the only thing that works is hard work, hard work and more hard work, and then some more hard work again.

Me and my whife have spent alot of time on tightening the band between us and our spoo. Since i work shifts he is never alone, this is proably one key factor. He is alowed to sleep in our bed, often with his head on my shoulder. We never use punishments or corrective training, a simple "no!" is the only thing required when he looks at us for permission to chase after a cat for example. This has made him a submissive pack member in our familly, always following us around waiting for something fun to happen. Since we dont have any kids we can give him 100% attention.

It is often forgotten, but a spoo is a predator with 20kg of muscle and 30mm fangs, discipline is essential. Just as when wolves were domesticated in sweden 10.000bc, he keeps me and my whife safe and warm(wakes us in the middle of the night when someone is approaching, keeps goats/sheep/livestock away from us when we are hiking, keeps us warm when we sleep, and fetches things/turn on lights. And we provide him with food, shelter and love.





There is no simple way, its just about the amount of effort you put into it. Its just with kids, if you give them a warm and loving environment with positive atmosphere they grow up alot better than if you spank them and punish them. CT is best used on toy robot dogs because it wont cause any damage. Use it on a real dog and it will become agressive, leading to a need for harder punishment every day and presumably ending in a 20kg predatore with 30mm fangs that really hates you(not good!)

Something that makes me laugh everytime is when im out walking with Bambi and see someone with a loose dog thats not comming back to their owner, and the owner is yelling and sounding really mad. As the owner gets more and more angry the dog goes farther and farther away. When i call on bambi he comes to me because he knows that i will give him a treat or a backrubb, and play with him.
Yes I know this is an old thread; but I realy like this post and I think it says a lot about spoodles.
How could a nice spoodle be in a pound for two years without being adopted???

Eric
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:05 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Yes I know this is an old thread; but I realy like this post and I think it says a lot about spoodles.
How could a nice spoodle be in a pound for two years without being adopted???

Eric
I agree with you, Eric, and look at that dear dog, lying on his human. Probably was starved for human attention and human contact after 2 yrs in a shelter. My Iris used to occasionally sprawl on me like that....just every once in a while. I loved it.


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Old 05-06-2016, 04:18 PM   #70 (permalink)
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This is a very nice story. Love the picture of him laying comfortably on you with no worries. Some day maybe Toby will be of the same mind.
My husband and are in it for the long haul. Reading up and discussing what way we should do things. We agree on positive reinforcement as well. Step by step, day by day.
I'm giggling as I turn to my left and my little Toby is laying sprawled out next to me...eyes barely open watching me.
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