JE-UK

I know, I know ... horse, dead, beating. Still, this is the most thoughtful and articulate criticism I've come across (yet another reason to love this blog), and couldn't help posting a link.

What Do I think about the Dog Whisperer? Talented Animals Blog

I particularly liked the points about competition:
Go to any canine competition (obedience, French Ring, agility, herding, etc.) and ask around, you will generally find the top people with the best trained and most obedient dogs dislike Millan’s methods, while hordes of novices with unruly dogs are devotees.

And a point I hadn't considered with regard to what people want out of their dogs:
I also recognize that many average pet homes want a dog that is as “shut-down” as possible: they do not want a happy, curious, and confident pet, they want a pet that just lies quietly in the corner, and Cesar’s techniques are in many instances an effective path to that end.

I DO want a confident, curious dog, but mine would probably drive some people crazy. He is not a believer in the "two walk a day, then lie in the corner all day" school of dog ownership . He is more of the "absorb most of owner's free time with walks, training, play" school.

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"Yes is so much important than No." Dominique Barbier

Countryboy

Interesting blog...

But I got as far as "I think Cesar Millan is a first-rate bully and a fifth rate trainer." and then I stopped reading.

Is it really a case of CM is all right? . . . or all wrong? I really can't think so. Very few opinions and people are.

I watch his show *sporadically* and dismiss some of his methods as inapplicable to my dogs. Or inapplicable to Tonka, but not to Spud. Or vice versa.

It's interesting to watch people attempting to devise a 'one size fits all' approach to dog training. IMO that will probably never work.

But anyone who encourages dog owners to actually think thru challenges with dogs . . get to know yr animals . . put yrself in their place . . understand their thinking patterns . . . should not be automatically dismissed as bad thing.

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liljaker

Interesting.....I never really paid that much attention to him, but once the "hype" got greater than what he was doing (product line, etc.) I lost interest in him. I, too, am a firm believer of providing the pet (poodle here) with what they need to be the most confident, happiest, content poodle which will then bring out the real personality -- which I think is why most people get poodles in the first place -- the non-shedding, athletic, etc., are second to wanting the temperment. That said, when I called the retired trainer/behaviorist who worked with Jake as a pup for straight obedience, with ideas for Sunny (she lives in Arizona now) -- she asked me what I thought about CM. I told her I honestly didn't know everything about him and his methods (probably since I never needed to) but she said she likes some of his training -- that said, I don't believe CM would recommend me going on week 9 and Sunny not trusting to walk him -- and starting from scratch to build the confidence.

Pat coming in the morning to feed him his breakfast IMO is brilliant! And, she just feeds, hangs around a little, picks up the bowl and leaves. It will take longer, but we are all willing to put in the time (and money since I pay her for a "walk") to help Sunny be comfortable and trusting. Some people would say, "the dog does not have a vote if he gets walked", etc. Well, not me -- I also feel very strongly about that.

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Indiana

That's true, Countryboy. Cesar really advocates lots of good things too, like rescuing dogs, committing to dogs, and giving a lot of those dogs featured on his show a better life. I mean, lots of those dogs have been locked in the garage or the yard because their own owners couldn't stand them! What a horrible life. At least if Cesar's methods work on them, they get to go for walks and socialize a bit. I just shudder to think how many people own dogs and don't provide for their basic emotional needs, blah.

Carley's Mom

CM is not for people like the ones on this forum ! We love our dogs, we want to do what is best for them, spend time with them, learn everything we can to meet the needs of each of our dogs! However we are rare ...to many people get a dog based on how that dog looks. They know nothing about the breed or it's needs, so they either put it on a chain, in the back yard, or close it off in one room of the house . They blame the dog for not knowing how to act instead of learning how to train it. Give it away and get another cute puppy... I praise CM for educating people that dogs need to be walked! So very simple and can solve so many issues , but new to so many uninformed dog owners. I am thankful that he has made a name for himself. I think he has helped lots of lost, unloved dogs.

fjm

Sitting here with my eyes tight shut, chanting "Must not get drawn into another CM argument! Must not get drawn into another CM argument!"

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To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden,
where doing nothing was not boring- it was peace.

~ Milan Kundera

MrsKaia

I use a couple of CM's methods on Cal. And I still have a happy go lucky guy. If anything, he got more confident I've watched and read several books, shows and YouTube movies (big fan of Kikopup) on several different dog-people before we actually got ourselves a dog. As far as training is concerned, I use a little bit of everything.
I think CM is a very charismatic person, driven, and I admire the energy he is willing to put into educating dog owners, helping dogs that are out of doggy sync, and trying to put a stop to puppy mills.

About the blog's point 1. A dog doesn't have to know another dog very well to be able to correct it. I've seen Cal do it to a newcomer in the dog park that we visit every weekend. Cal didn't wait until the other dog was in a situation he was sure to succeed in, so that he could lick him for good behavior. The other dog pushed a Cal-boundary, and boom! ... correction*. That's how dogs communicate. 'I don't want you to do that, so don't do that'. About the cruel part. There was an episode in which CM had to keep a leashed wolf hybrid at bay. And despite the fact that the same thing happened to the owner of the dog on a regular basis (she was bitten more than once), and that that was the reason they asked CM for help, that episode seems to have put a big 'cruel trainer'-stamp on him.

* Nothing worrying. Just a short chase and a lot of jaw chattering from Cal while he was chasing the newcomer away. The newcomer (a clumsy boxer/great dane mix) bumped into him while Cal was retrieving his ball, and then he tried to take the ball away from Cal.

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Cal on Flickr

JE-UK

But isn't that what Millan is selling, the one size fits all? Granted, I don't watch him regularly, but I hear the same stuff in every episode I've seen: pack leader, calm assertive energy, dog must 'respect' you, etc. And the same physical corrections in every episode: poking, kicking, yanking. He's a one-trick pony and his trick is straight out of the outdated Koehler method, wrapped in a lot of new-age'y 'energy' woo.

I also get really tired of the "but he advocates lots of good things too!" defense. He doesn't advocate anything a good, modern, reward-based trainer wouldn't (boundaries, exercise, rescue), but he DOES act as an advertisement for dangerous conflict-based training.

In other words, the fact that Stalin was a great organiser and a strong leader does not excuse the horrific abuse he heaped upon his people. In the same way, spouting a few bits of good advice does not excuse the damage Millan has no doubt caused to thousands of dogs.

Off soapbox now . Any time I see a brick wall, I feel an irresistible urge to bang my head against it.

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"Yes is so much important than No." Dominique Barbier

catsaqqara

No, he doesn't do one size fits all, at all. He suggests boundaries, consistency, and exercise to every dog like any good trainer would, but evaluates each dog individually, its a key thing noted in the shows.

He is not a trainer, he doesn't train dogs, so its incorrect to suggest he is using outdated old school training methods.

He communicates with dogs in their language, take a look at how dogs interact and correct each other. Well socialized dogs correct puppies and other dogs who are not properly socialized.

The dogs on his shows are primarily aggressive dogs who have bitten a person. The average dog is not suited for his methods because the average dog is not aggressive.

Alpha has been "debunked" but its clear dogs practice dominance and submissive behaviors. Dogs can clearly like to lead or follow.[Like Bambi and Jaden, she likes to be the leader in many ways and Jaden is always looking to me and seeing what I'm doing and following my lead]
The dogs on his show are primarily overly or inappropriately dominant. The average dog is not dominant in this way so its inappropriate to use this method on them.

The issue with CM is that people use this method to try and train their dogs, which is incorrect. People incorrectly assume its for every dog even though its clearly shown on dogs who are dangerous and have the potential to kill or cause injuries demonstrated though previous maulings and bites. Used in inappropriate situations the dogs retreat within themselves, become timid, shy, unresponsive, etc. Used correctly after a period of being unsure of themselves they blossom and become more confident. Its really quite intricate and dog to dog specific, I don't know all that's behind it and I haven't studied all there is to know about canine psychology, its the same for human psychology; so I don't use his methods beyond the very basics, be calm, in control of your self, be your dogs leader and advocate, be confident. I personally love clicker training and all that way has to offer, my dogs are perfect for it and so are many dogs.

The woo stuff? is not. Many people have said is seems dogs are able to read your mind. They know when your going to take them for a walk or this car ride is to the vets, your stressed, are anxious or sad/in need of a laugh. Bambi is especially in tune with me, she can tell when I'm having anxiety(when the humans don't see it), its often described as an invisible illness but its not. Dogs cant read your mind, they are experts in human body language and facial expressions(there was a post here about a tv special on this). So CM describes this body language as energy because if he said to people their BL is showing that they them selves are unsure so there dog is then that's all they would concentrate on instead of trying to be calm. You have to be calm and in control of yourself so your dog can look at you and be at ease. Your BL or catchy phrase "energy", BL(voice too) can be very subtle and most dogs are sensitive to these tiny changes.

After CM's first shows he started to change his focus from only dangerous dogs to include, fearful, and unsure dogs who lack confidence, which are treated differently often with treats, exposure etc.

The dogs gravitate toward him, they do not shy away, they visibly trust him, that would just not happen if they were mistreated. I'm not saying he doesn't make mistakes, we all do, I have seen one dog shy away from him and that dog was treated inappropriately in my opinion. And with the shock collar use, some dogs may be appropriate for it, idk, but I have seen him either correct one to many times or use an inappropriate setting. I don't like shock collars but many people use them, some animal lovers use them. He also uses a vibrating collar.

Spoos on average would be the least likely to be considered as needing a visit from CM.

Also if you take a look at the silver fox domestication, their results show that aggressive behavior is primarily genetic. I just found this interesting and somewhat relevant in that dogs(I know fox are not dogs) are not all the same and can be just plain aggressive and probably require a different approach than the more sedate and pleasant temperament of the average dog. A different approach by a professional.
This will probably be my only time entering a discussion about CM.

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JE-UK

Wow, catsaqqara, thoughtful post. I disagree with some points, but it's not a criticism, just a different view.

Any interaction we have with our dogs, any time we ask them to do something we'd prefer rather than what they would prefer, we are training. All the time. Just because he's not training heelwork patterns doesn't mean he's not training. I always think it's a bit disingenuous of him to say he doesn't train dogs; of course he trains dogs. Many of his methods are straight out of Koehler (the go-to guy for force-based training).

Not from what I've seen. The biters I've seen on his show (and I haven't seen them all) look to be mostly fear biters or resource guarders. For each of these, conflict training is the absolute worst approach.

Your point about the debunked alpha term is a good one. Alpha is both a loaded term and one that it is not useful to use, and so is dominant, but there ARE clear differences in dogs' personalities. In my head, I characterise dogs along a spectrum of "you aren't the boss of me!!" down to "sure, whatever".

But for dogs that fall into the former, who aren't biddable and compliant, who have strong opinions, aggressive training is again the WORST approach. This teaches the dog that conflict and physical confrontation are the way to get what you want. The fact that Millan manages to overpower them in one context is actually teaching the dog that the NEXT time, the dog needs to go harder to get what he wants. Which means the handler has to escalate.

Much better to teach the dog that cooperation rather than force gets him what he wants.

Fair point. Given that most people he seems to deal with are neither self-aware nor aware of their dogs, that's reasonable.

Hmm. I found a CM episode with a poodle and watched it. And then felt sick. I keep having to watch these things in order to be able to factually respond and it makes me physically ill every single time. I'll post what I thought about a poodle subjected to CM methods separately.

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"Yes is so much important than No." Dominique Barbier