lilypoo

Lily has this new thing and I think my kids have been encouraging it, unknowingly. I've asked them to stop but my 5 and 6 year olds don't have the self-control usually, to not react with giggling, etc. So this new behavior, which I think could lead to BAD THINGS, is that Lily does this quick strike at someone's face, as though she's going to give kisses, but more and more often, she's nipping. She doesn't bite down at all, but you definitely feel teeth grazing your nose. It seemed to start as a "you're annoying me!!!" type of statement but now it seems like she's doing it out of habit. It honestly seems quite dominant to me, to see the look on her face. I've started immediately putting her down when she does it to me and I've told the kids not to stick there faces in her space right now.

Any tips on discouraging this further? Right now she's staring at me forlornly because she was quite happily cuddling with me and then bit my nose, so I put her down and starting ignoring her.

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*Chelee*

DonnaM

It may be dominance or inappropriate play, but either way I definately agree that the behaviour needs to stop, in a hurry. My suggestion is that when Lily nips loudly squeel "ouch", much like a puppy would when niped by another. Squeel wether or not it actually hurt. Immediately after that put on an exagerated huff, be unavailable for interaction. Move away, or turn your back on Lily, fold up your hands. Behave sort of similar to a stuborn child. If Lily tries to interact with you, keep turning away from her until she gets the message and gives up. Try this every time she nips. I know it's difficult, but you must ensure that your children do not laugh at Lily's nipping, it gives Lily the idea that it's a fun game. This nipping behaviour does have the potential of becoming a serious issue.

Quossum

*shamefaced admission* I used to play this with my Corgi. I called it "Bitey Face." But sure enough, the playful snap got a little too close and Bitey Face had to end.

I ended it much as you are doing, instantly putting her down and withdrawing all attention when she did it. Even though I had allowed it before, it didn't take long to extinguish the behavior. You really do need to get the kids on board or closely supervise their play; this has the potential to be quite a bad game, as you realize.

Good luck!

--Q

fjm

Sounds like a game rather than dominance to me too - very much the way dogs play together, or signal their disapproval. It is most definitely NOT a game for dogs to play with humans though - and more especially not with children. I would be working with the children to ensure they stop encouraging it, before it ends in tears or worse.

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To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden,
where doing nothing was not boring- it was peace.

~ Milan Kundera

JE-UK

Not sure what is meant by "putting down", but hope it isn't something akin to the misbegotten alpha roll. Behaviourist research has shown it is at best ineffective and damaging to the relationship with the dog, and at worst, a trigger for fear aggression/biting. There is a ton of material available on the web on this particular myth. Any physical punishment of any dog is unwise, IMO, and especially with a fragile toy.

Sorry, off my soapbox.

Regardless of WHY she is doing it (although I would guess it is because she's been encouraged/rewarded for the behaviour by the children), the only thing that really matters is HOW to stop it.

The best way to extinguish the behaviour is to stop rewarding it with attention, i.e. squeals and laughter. When she does it, remove all attention. With my miniature, the most extreme way I can show my disfavour is to either remove myself, or remove him. For a behaviour that I dislike that is really rewarding for him, he gets a 30 second timeout in the kitchen on his own (which he loathes, begin the ultimate velcro dog). It is about the only punishment I use, and it's only for the most serious transgressions of house rules.

I'd first try teaching an incompatible behaviour and rewarding the heck out of it. If she's lying down, or learning to roll over on command, or doing anything that keeps her face away from yours, she CAN'T air snap, plus she gets the attention she wants, plus she is learning to do something for which you can legitimately reward.

As fjm said, an air snap to the muzzle is how dogs discipline or express displeasure to each other, and it really doesn't belong as a way to interact with humans. I'd be working hard on it right away, while closely supervising interactions between her and the kids.

lilypoo

Oh no, not the alpha roll. I meant I'm setting her down on the ground (from my lap, or my bed, or the couch) and refusing to interact with her for a few minutes. It seems to have worked--she has all but stopped doing it. She still occasionally (maybe once a week) will do the air snap thing when she's in a feisty mood. I'm not really sure why...maybe it's a puppy mill personality quirk...we're starting training classes in a couple weeks so hopefully that will help!

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Dioritt

If it's any consolation, my pup did the same thing until about a month or so ago (he's 7 months old now). I did has been suggested here - yelped and withdrew all attention until he stopped trying to get any attention then a few minutes later I'd give him attention again (so the attention was on my terms). Now he never nips or air snaps at all, but he does mouth our hands when he's having a cuddle. It never hurts though as he's learned to be really gentle. There was a time though, when I thought he'd never stop the nipping and air snapping. Keep doing what you're doing and I'm sure you'll soon have a lovely poodle with a soft mouth.

PaddleAddict

The kids should never ever, EVER put their faces in Lily's space (or any other dog for that matter). It's a very dangerous behavior and asking for a a bad outcome.

A few kids on my street do this to Jäger (they will hold his head and put their face right up against his face) and I always tell them they cannot ever do this because dogs don't like it and they could get bit. The boy across the street says his mom allows him and his sister to kiss their German Shepehrd on the face and hug him around the neck with their faces together. I don't know if this is true or not, you know how kids say things, but if it is true it's such a bad behavior for a child to be practicing and just asking for a dog bite some day.

Kids should never be hugging or squeezing dogs and really should never have their faces anywhere near the dog, especially the dog's face. People think their dog is so good with the kids and would never bite but any dog can bite if scared or hurt or uncomfortable.

muffin

I think our dogs really are half-sisters LOL! Gracie is doing this with my 10 month old and it's so frustrating! I just tell her "no faces" and if I have to, push her down (as in put my hand on her back and guide her down from jumping). I think it's just playful behavior but I want Gracie to have an absolute no faces rule, I hate when she gets all up in my face haha! It sucks when I take her to visit the land lady and she encourages Gracie to lick her face, ugh!

lilypoo

Muffin, I really think they are! LOL

It's a naughty little habit that I thought we'd pretty much beaten, but after we boarded her for four nights a couple weeks ago, she's been again doing it. We're in training now and I will bring it up with our trainer. I'm hoping that just going through the process of training (and establishing me more firmly as an alpha) will help. I continue to withdraw attention/interaction when she does it. My kids have gotten much better about not getting their faces close to her. It's something I have to constantly stay on top of!

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*Chelee*