WestCoastSpoo

I've been reading Ian Dunbar and Patricia McConnell puppy books obsessively preparing for my puppy's arrival in July, but I have a couple questions. Dunbar talks about not feeding the puppy from his bowl for the 1st few weeks and instead feeding by hand, as rewards and inside chew toys which makes sense to me. BUT how does that affect house training? Other authors have said to feed puppies on a strict schedule so you pretty much know when they will need to go potty and can make sure it's outside. If you're feeding them all day long from inside a chew toy, etc does that make it harder to house train? It seems like they'd need to go potty all day!

Dunbar I guess addresses this by saying you should take your dog to go potty every hour on the hour. Has anyone followed this method? Did it work?

Oh and also he says to set up a crate but also a larger playpen area with an indoor bathroom. Is that kind of counter-productive when trying to teach the pup to potty outside? We have a large yard, and I'm getting a spoo pup who won't ever be using an indoor "potty" when he's older (not like a toy living in an apartment or something) and I'm a stay at home mom so I won't need to leave the puppy alone for more than an hour or 2 at a time (just when I need to run to the store - I'm hoping after parvo shots to walk the pup with me to pick up the kids from school). I've never set up an indoor potty for a dog. I like the idea of the play pen for when I maybe can't watch him like a hawk - although I like the idea of keeping him leashed to me too and then using the crate for when I need to (like when I'm showering or something).

I'm a little confused and would love to hear what worked for everyone! Thanks

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fjm

I think the idea of the larger pen is for when you need to leave your pup for longer periods, or overnight, when it may be too much to expect a young pup to hold on for hours. He recommends using a real turf in the indoor loo, to get the pup used to going only on grass. If you are around to take your pup out regularly and frequently, you are already half way there! I would recommend putting akitchen timer or similar in your pocket and using it though - it is surprisingly easy to lose track of time!

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To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden,
where doing nothing was not boring- it was peace.

~ Milan Kundera

Purley

My take on this is that if you are home and not working, I would not ever train a dog to potty inside if you are expecting the dog to always go outside. I have found that big puppies -- I mean ones that are going to be large dogs can hold it far longer than smaller dogs. I got my Golden when she was 12 weeks old and she stayed in the crate all night from day one and never messed in her crate.

If you are going to work and have to leave the dog alone for extended periods - then maybe pottying inside might be a necessity, but otherwise I wouldn't do it.

phrannie

Since you're a stay at home mom, giving puppy a place to potty inside the house would seem darn counter productive, to me (I sure wouldn't do it)...I also think, especially with a pup who's only 8 to 12 weeks old, that I sure wouldn't wait to take baby out every hour on the hour, either....when they are up and playing it's more like every 20 minutes get them out the door....when they're sleeping, say phew....I got a little bit of time where I can actually take my eyes off the pup. Since you're home except when doing errands, I'd just get the pup outside before I left, and crate till I returned.

Feeding them at this stage all day long, instead of strict schedule totally does not make any sense to me....there is plenty of time down the road to pass treats out during the day, once house training has been accomplished. House training is intense, in that you have to watch the puppy every minute he's awake...but it doesn't last forever (couple of weeks or so)....

Patricia McConnell is so knowledgeable....I'd stick with what she says, and put Ian's therories on the back burner.

p

WestCoastSpoo

Thanks everyone! That makes much more sense - I don't think I'm going to need the whole "long term confinement" I think is what Dunbar called it. And I do really love Patricia McConnell! We've found a trainer in our area who follows her methods (and is actually close friends with her) so we'll be taking puppy and obedience classes from her once we get our little spoo

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JE-UK

Patricia McConnell is wonderful, and you can't go wrong following her advice. I'm still dithering over whether I can justify going to her seminar ... she's doing one in Edinburgh in September. Pretty far to go, but would really like to hear her speak.

I didn't train mine to an indoor potty place, but my S.O. was home with him from six weeks at the start, plus we got the pup at 12 weeks, so no need to leave him beyond the time he could reasonably expect to hold it. He housetrained SUPER fast, once he understood that peeing outside earned him bits of chicken! It's weird, but even now he will sometimes go and pee then come and sit and look at me expectantly .

I think Ian's advice regarding feeding has to do with ensuring the puppy never considers food guarding behaviour. By hand-feeding, the puppy learns that all good things come from you. And using food in Kongs or other food dispensing toys won't mess up your schedules too much, as they get pretty quick at getting the food out. I still, if mine is antsy and I don't have time for a training or play session, will put his dinner in a Kong.

Good luck! If you like Patricia McConnell, you would also like Jean Donaldson and Susanne Clothier.

Rowan

This is what worked for me but YMMV.

On days I was home, I would take them out immediately after eating, after waking from a nap, after playing and after coming out of the crate. They sleep a lot so this was easy to follow. I used a 'code phrase' ("go squirt") every time they weed outside so they'd associate the phrase with act. Now I can just say, "Go squirt" and they both go on command. I didn't crate them for very long at night--I think by 4 months they were on the bed and I would just take them out every 4-5 hours until they were able to hold it all night. A regular feeding schedule is key. My pups were both larger miniatures so they ate 2 times a day. I know a lot of vets recommend feeding smaller breed puppies up to 3 times a day. As long as you're consistent (time and amount), you should be able to get them on a set elimination schedule.

When I went to work, I'd crate them and they were let out every 3-4 hours. (Rule of thumb is age in months + one = hours an average puppy can hold it.)

We had a few accidents in the house (usually when they'd sneak away when I turned my back for a few seconds). It's all about vigilance and consistency--and calm correction when they are caught in the act (I would just say "no" and take them outside). Poodles are just so smart they figure it out in no time! And it's kind of funny to watch my black poodle lift his leg every time I say "go squirt" to get my others to wee. He's so well trained!