minipoodlelover

Hello HiSocietyPoodle,

I wasn't a member here when you first started this thread, but I have read through it and I'm so happy you have experienced improvement. It must have been extremely difficult for you and your family to live through such a stressful time, and I empathize. A lot of people would have called it quits, especially after your father fell and got hurt. Instead, you didn't give up, and you helped a needy dog in the process. I sincerely hope there is no regression when Goomba returns. Rooting for you and Guido!

HiSocietyPoodle

minipoodlelover -- Thank you. I'm so happy that Guido had learned to poop in his own yard. It took quite a while but he finally learned. I think part of it is he senses when I'm sick and not well and can't walk him, he goes in the yard.

msminnamouse -- You have no idea what my neighbors, family I have been through. I had no other alternative but use the zap collar. If you read this thread I tried everything. The zap collars aren't banded cause I bought one in my local pet store. Please post the easier alternatives you are speaking of.

msminnamouse

I did read through this whole thread. Using a shock collar IS the easier alternative to training.

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fjm

I am glad things are better for you, although I too dislike shock collars - they repress the behaviour but don't teach the dog an alternative, and repressed behaviour can rebound in unexpected and unpleasant ways. I do suspect that you may quickly find yourself back at square one when Goomba is back in the house, though - it always sounded as if most of the problems came from Guido's anxiety at sharing his home with Goomba, and I'm not sure that anxiety has really been addressed. I do hope I am wrong, though!

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To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden,
where doing nothing was not boring- it was peace.

~ Milan Kundera

JE-UK

Yes, fjm and msminnamouse have said it ... shock collars are cruel, they are a lazy way to manage (not cure) a problem, and did I say they were cruel?

When I imagine using such a device on my dog, it makes me feel quite ill ... my dog who trusts me, works for me, tolerates all sorts of inexplicable (to him) weirdnesses for me, makes me laugh every day, makes coming home a joy ... it would be a very poor repayment for me to then scare and hurt him by shocking, especially for a normal dog behaviour that I had never bothered to understand or to explain to him (in a way he can understand) that I'd really prefer he not do.

There are some good resources here for a) understanding why your dog is barking and b) helping him find other ways to express himself. Worth a read.

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"Yes is so much important than No." Dominique Barbier

msminnamouse

I scanned back over this thread. Several things stand out.

You need to get this kind of thinking out of your head. It doesn't make sense. Dogs don't do things out of spite or out of defiance. When they do something, they have a perfectly logical reason, to them, for why they are doing it. Your dog isn't "out to get you or to get back at you". You're setting yourself up to be angry at your dog and that doesn't accomplish anything and often makes things worse.

In regards to chewing on furniture, if redirecting his chewing to something that he CAN chew on doesn't work, grab his leash and take him away from what he's chewing on. Then bring him right back to try again. Take him away every time he starts to chew and bring him back to try again. Praise and reward when he stops the chewing.

You also said that you discipline him. How exactly did you accomplish this? This may be the stem of the reason why he's not responding to what you did to try to correct his behaviors.

Squirting him when he barks is worthless. A lot of dogs even enjoy biting at streams of water. You made barking either a fun game or you caused him more stress and alarm by doing it which would increase his barking.

And I take back when I said this That was bad advice.

You didn't follow directions at all. You were told by multiple people not to put him in a time out in his crate/pen because it will cause his crate/pen to become a negative place for him. You were told to put him in a time out in an enclosed room that he often doesn't go into with no chews or toys. Put him in there every time that he barks. Take him out when he stops. Putting him in there in there is the consequence for barking, taking him out is the reward for stopping the barking.

Yes, it requires more work, time, commitment and thinking than a spray bottle or shock collar but it works if you commit to it.

You tether the dog to YOU. Tie the leash around your waist. He may like being tethered to you but it will enable you to keep a constant eye on him. He won't have a chance to potty inside because you will always be there to catch him. All you have to do is interrupt him each time and rush him outside to finish, then reward him for going outside, never inside.

Later, when he no longer is going potty in the house, you can stop the tethering and work on his gaining some independence. AFTER he has earned the privilege to have free reign of the house. Going potty inside is abusing that privilege and he should lose the privilege until he earns it.

A muzzle will NOT stop him from barking and is a really bad idea for him to wear all the time, the only dogs that are suitable for wearing a muzzle all the time is one that has to wear an E-collar but won't tolerate it and the muzzle has to be a basket muzzle so they can eat, drink, and pant while wearing it, which other muzzles don't allow. It is a last resort to muzzle a dog all the time and barking won't stop with a muzzle and it's not a good reason for a muzzle.

If his crate/pen is now a negative place for him, you need to do your best to make it a positive place again. Besides what I said earlier, start feeding him in his crate/pen, give him treats and chews in his crate/pen and don't only put him in it when you have to leave or when he has to go to sleep. Make it a fun and calming retreat for him, his very own place. Leave the door open all the time when he's not in it for him to go to it for naps and such.

It just seems kind of pointless to continue reading the rest of this thread again. You sound like all you want to try is the easiest and quickest thing. You never enlisted the help of a trainer, let alone a qualified trainer. You don't seem committed to anything that requires real work, which is what real training is. But real training gets real results. I doubt that you need a veterinary behaviorist if you find a QUALIFIED and GOOD trainer and follow to the letter what they advise you.

If you don't know where to find one, ask your local dog rescues who they use and recommend. Rescues often have problem dogs, the trainers they work with should be experienced, properly educated and qualified. Again, NO Cesar Millan type trainers who rely on dominance and force. Experts at the top of their fields when it comes to dog behavior and dog psychology don't condone him and his methods.

If you're not willing to put in the effort and time to training your dog, then it's pretty safe to assume that most things won't get better on their own.

Easy, quick "fixes" like a shock collar usually achieve quick, non-lasting results, if they don't make things worse first.

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Rowan

Okay, if my three MPOOs are outside and they hear the neighborhood children shriek and squeal, they bark too, but I would never put a shock collar on them. Ever. I agree with the above sentiments about shock collars--they don't change a behaviour but merely mask or bury it.

(Personally, I feel like screaming when I hear children shrieking & squealing so I understand the barking.)

I prefer redirection and positive reinforcement. It takes longer to accomplish, but it's well worth it. For instance, if we're outside and the kids squeal, Pippin will often bark. I immediately get his attention, call him to me, put him in a sit and use Victoria Stilwell's "watch me" command. Once I have his attention and he's quiet, I praise him* and he goes wild, running in circles. If he barks again, I repeat the exercise only this time I ask him to do something (down, stay, heel, etc.). Poodles are incredibly intelligent and they love to please you--above all they enjoy a challenge. *If your poo is food motivated, use food and praise.

If Pippin is really riled up and continues to bark, I quietly put the poos inside with little or no reaction/emotion. They want to be outside with me and they soon learn they can only join me if they're quiet. Dog wants something, dog soon learns what he must do to get it. Dog does 'A' and is praised, dog wants to repeat said behaviour for more praise.

So, lots of praise when you get the behaviour you desire, and calm, redirection when you don't. It's not an instant fix, but it will stop the unwanted behaviour and will help you bond with your dog.

Someone mentioned earlier that dogs don't do things out of spite. They don't do things in retaliation or out of anger or jealousy either. It's not in their nature and it's what makes them special, at least to me. To attribute human form, emotions or personality to a dog is anthropomorphizing them, and it's the biggest obstacle most dog owners face when trying to understand their canine friends.

fjm

To tell a story:

Sam is not quite 4 years old, and lives with his guardian. She tries to be kind, she gives him regular meals and sometimes takes him to the swings to play, but she is often unwell, and does not understand small boys very well. Sam's absolutely favourite games are running around the garden pretending to be a fire engine, talking to the children across the street, and painting pictures. His guardian worries about the neighbours, and smacks him when he makes a noise in the garden. She doesn't like the mess his painting makes, and smacks him if he touches anything with painty fingers. She doesn't approve of the children across the street, and smacks him if he calls to them. Sam doesn't understand why these things are naughty, but after a while he sits quietly in a corner, rocking backwards and forwards. His guardian is pleased because he is quiet.

Sometimes his guardian's stepson, Harry, comes to visit. Sam is a bit frightened of him, and deep down is worried his guardian likes the other boy better, and may not want to look after Sam anymore. He squabbles with Harry, and is scolded for it. After a few days he starts wetting the bed, and his guardian gets even crosser. She talks to some people at church, who say he is doing it to get back at her - now Sam is also smacked for wetting the bed ...

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To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden,
where doing nothing was not boring- it was peace.

~ Milan Kundera

minipoodlelover

HiSocietyPoodle - I think you have been given some excellent concrete advice here; positive actions that you can implement on a consistent basis. I had never heard of shock collars until I read this thread, and I don't like to judge when I'm not the one living with the situation that you are. However, the collar does sound awful :( I really hope you don't use it, and find your way through without it. You have my utmost sympathy!