Kloliver

I wholeheartedly AGREE with Courtney_20_00! &, as it turns out, we have littermates.

I don't think it's a coincidence that both of our dogs are on their way as therapy dogs. That, I feel speaks volumes. Rango has been called an 'Ambassador for his Breed'; he passed his CGC before 10 months & I can't tell you how many people comment on how mellow & sweet he is.

I've also had several AKC show people comment on his conformation. Their litter has MANY CH titled solids in it's line, so care was taken. Linda & Julie have been available to answer my questions & show a genuine interest in his development.

*chuckle* This wasn't intended as a boast post but all indications indicate (to me, at least) a responsible breeder whose intention is to keep improving the line.

Kloliver

Take a read of this post & take Tabatha of Nola Standards up on her offer.

Happy Tails in Carthage MO

Yaddaluvpoodles

[QUOTE=cbrand;41188]Breeds have Standards. The standard is the blue print breeders use for maintaining the overall look, movement and in some cases temperament in a breed.
Breed standards are not set in stone for all eternity. They are constantly evolving and most breed standards are changed or updated periodically. While breed standards "define" the breed often the standards are quite subjective and left open to a good deal of interpretation and personal choice. Breed standards frequently vary from country to country. It has only been in recent years that the "red" poodle has become recognized in many countries, especially the European ones. As people become more and more sensitive to docking and the issues surrounding it, breed standards are being changed to acknowledge those sensitivities... and establish ideals for natural tails. Less than 2 decades ago,many purebred poodle rescues here in the USA wouldn't accept a poodle with an undocked tail. I often wondered how a full tail could make a poodle, any less than a poodle, but in many peoples eyes, it seems to do so.

People think color is not a big deal and that any and all colors should now be OK in poodles.

Again, breed standards "evolve" over time. There are pros and cons to any of those changes. I tend to look at color from a different perspective, that people think color IS a big deal.. and are liking some of the previously unrecognized colors and/or patterns. We have already seen changes in some breed standards to allow for this and I anticipate more changes to more standards in different kennel clubs throughout the world.


Well what about coats. How do you feel about flat coated poodles? Ever heard of Bluebells? These tend to pop up in Mini litters. They are born a gun-metal gray all over and they have flat, non-curly coats? Should we start showing these in UKC as well? Or is there something about the curly coat that defines "Poodle".


[COLOR="Blue"]As time passes, popular opinion dictates what people are interested in... and how the standard changes and evolve. It will be interesting to see what changes take place in the future. A flat coated poodle doesn't sound to poodley to me, but it takes way more than just coat to make a poodle. I have a girl with SA (mild case, thankfully!). She is every bit a poodle, even when her SA flares up and she loses patches of her hair... and then the hair that regrows is of different color and texture. I've seen photos of unfortunate poodles with SA who have very little hair left on their bodies anywhere, yet I would have to say that they are still poodles. Hate to say it, I'm also aware of poodles with SA who have been bred and who have regrown coats to the extent that it's not evident they have SA. I don't believe that these poodles belong anywhere near a ring or a breeding program (anymore than I think a flat coated poodle does), yet there are people out there who don't seem to have problems with it. [/COLO

Yaddaluvpoodles

I've yet to see a perfect poodle, fault can be found with each, some more than others. I've seen plenty of AKC Ch. I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole and some.. that I had to really wonder what the judges were thinking.

It's really important to keep in mind that breeds (and bloodlines within those breeds).. evolve and develop, that breeders work on developing desireable traits. It doesn't just happen over night, it is an ongoing process. Because our breed standard made parti's, phantoms etc, "unacceptable" for years only "unacceptable" breeders could admit to having them. One of the consequences of that is difficulty making improvements in type because of lack of available genetic resources.. it was "taboo" for any "good" breeders to associate with "unacceptable" breeders. I am aware of many tales of "good" breeders culling puppies with mismarks or unacceptable color or patterns by killing. It is only in recent years that breeders are becoming a bit more open about it and that it's not considered as shameful and something to be hidden. Due to the huge popularity of the parti, brindle, phantom, sable, (etc) poodles, there has been a tremendous demand for them, which made the prices go through the roof. A handful of breeders initially hit the financial jackpot by inbreeding heavily on lines known to produce these traits. Because they were breeding for profit, the focus was on production, not on quality. The amount of inbreeding was tremendous and most of the established color lines scare the day lights out of me from a health perspective. There are now many breeders involved with parti's and patterned poodles who are sincerely interested in the wellbeing of these uniquely colored poodles. They are working towards improved structures, doing their health testing, etc. Despite the color and the patterns, these poodles are still.. poodles. It amazes me when I see how far the solid colored breeders have come (ok, sometimes I think we've come too far..) historically having dealt with many of the structural issues the color breeders are now trying to address, yet had the colored(patterned) poodles not been ostracized by the breed standard in the first place, I suspect that the structures would be equal to those of the solid poodles. There are some really nicely structure parti's out there.

Yaddaluvpoodles

Not only culled, but zipped their lips about it too as they didn't want other people to know that they had "defective" genes in their lines. For some folk, breeding is such a game of ego.. at our poodles expense. I see the same thing going on today. but with health issues rather than color.

Many of the "silver" solids poodles are actually phantoms.. take a good look at them some time. I have also suspected that there is another reason for the name "phantom".... just a suspicion....

A couple of years ago I had a couple of phantom pups born to solid parents. I had anticipated solid blue pups out of that breeding and was stunned at the phantom markings. First time that has ever happened to me and I was a bit surprised. I was even more surprised when I started getting the old negative headshake from some solid breeders, and even more surprised when one gave me her condolences! Then came even a bigger surprise.... the phantom markings faded. Both of those "pups" are solid blue to all appearances. It makes me wonder how many other blues out there were phantom marked at birth with the markings fading as they aged. And it made me wonder if yet another reason for the name "phantom" isn't just due to the mask.. but perhaps to the disappearing markings as well???

Opus

I did not take the time to read all the replies to your query. However, if you are willing to go the distance or to ship.... here is a link you may just want to follow.
Breeders Kennel name is Elegance
Breeders name is Lyne Corneau
I will personally vouch for her. She has an excellent sales contract and will ship. She speaks both french and english. NEVE, her bitch is due in a few days. I am not sure she is taking more reservations...but you can try. Neve is petite, weighing less than 40 pounds and mesuring about 22 inches. She has an awesome temperament. How do I know...
My bitches come fro Lyne. I live 20 minutes from her place and we have been sharing discussions together for the last 6 years. I am not biased....I WOULD NOT vouch for anyone I did not beleive in 100%.
Here is her website.
http://canicheparticolor.com
Good luck finding your phantom.