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Old 02-08-2013, 08:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I wanted to mention some breeders I found while daydreaming about apricots too, may be worth looking into: Autumn shades, lumiere, and farleys d. They may be too far away from you, but it may be worth having a pup shipped if it is exactly what you're looking for
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:39 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I don't know this breeder and I am not a breeder so my opinion is based on what I saw on the web site and researches I made on poodle pedigree databases. Please note that I am in the same boat as you ie I had a bad experience with a pure bred dog before. You got only negative comments on this breeder but here are the positive one I saw (I have a scientific backround and some genetic knowledge) :

1. You will be able to see both parents (this is was she states on her web site).
2. The dam COI (Rayllee) is really low and lots of unique ancestors. This is not a garanty but it's a good start to lower your chances of physical health and temper problems. The dam really looks good to but I would ask why her tail is so short.
COI = 0.9%[10G,10F,1078U,103C]
COI15 = 5.5%[15G,10F,4634U,1714C]
3. The sir (Felix) is four years old and no noticable genetic health problems yet (you can ask her for a written garanty about that).
4. This is possibily an outcross breeding since it's a mini with a standard. The puppies would then have a COI of 0 over many generations which adds diversity to the gene pool. This is also good to reduce the physical health and temper problems with no garanty. You need the sir's pedigree to confirm dam and sir have no common ancestors. I could not find it.

For these reasons and many others, I would visit this breeder if I was looking for a small spoo. I would bring a friend to get a second opinion. Following my visit maybe I would adopt a puppy from her maybe not, my choice would depends on many other things including my "feeling".
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julietcr1 View Post
4. This is possibily an outcross breeding since it's a mini with a standard. The puppies would then have a COI of 0 over many generations which adds diversity to the gene pool. This is also good to reduce the physical health and temper problems with no garanty. You need the sir's pedigree to confirm dam and sir have no common ancestors. I could not find it.
I cannot agree with this. Minis and Standards have different genetic diseases. How can mixing two different pots of soup make things better?
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Thank you, Schnauzerpoodle, for the soup comment!

This promotion of "low coi" borders on gimmick. It means VERY LITTLE to a puppy buyer. It should be a tool for breeders, and only a tool, yet it is being promoted like "CH Lines!.

Scary!!

OP -
Reach out to Farleys - he has a breeding planned. His girls, like Annie and B, are very feminine small girls - 20 and 21 I think.

Am searching for more resources for you.


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Old 02-09-2013, 05:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I agree with earlier posters that considering the size you are looking for, I'd look at poodle breeders with some smaller females.........my neighbor has a poodle from a reputable breeder and Mona Lisa is 21" and 38 pounds. That would be the safer way to go in my opinion.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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A quality breeder does not breed a mini to a standard. This is a definite red flag. A low COI does not guarantee a healthy dog. I am willing to bet that doodles suffer from more genetic ailments. I know my sister has a doodle that has just turned seven and I doubt it will make eight. Although it is a sweet dog at over 100 pounds and the size of a small pony it is not the mini size that she was promised. If you want a poodle look for a poodle.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:34 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Here's another issue to consider in breeding a mini to a standard. What if the pups aren't correctly proportioned? For example, you could wind up with a miniature-sized dog with large, spoo-sized teeth. Or a large dog with shortish legs. I would take the suggestions offered here instead!
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starpoodle View Post
Here's another issue to consider in breeding a mini to a standard. What if the pups aren't correctly proportioned? For example, you could wind up with a miniature-sized dog with large, spoo-sized teeth. Or a large dog with shortish legs. I would take the suggestions offered here instead!
Exactly! Look at the parents (Raylee and Felix) of this litter. Parents

Has Raylee the spoo been tested? http://www.vipoodle.org/PDF_Files/Te...ardPoodles.pdf

How about Felix the mini? http://www.vipoodle.org/PDF_Files/Te...urePoodles.pdf
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:50 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I really like the fact that Sushi is a mix of two different pot of soup and yes it can make the soup better, just try it;o) Some breeders in this forum are breeding red spoos so I am not the only one who likes soup mix....Or maybe red breeders don't know red standards are the result of outcrossing a mini to a standard 30 years ago? Look in your red spoos pedigree, Sushi's miniature ancestor is Palmares E Pluribus Unum who was bred to a female standard named Palmares Peach Beryl in 1982.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:54 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Red breeders know full well the issues of breeding a mini to a standard. The original cross to introduce red was with dogs only 10 cm apart is size and yet repeated problems of dogs with heads the size of standards with the short legs of a mini were a continual problem. Look at this web page explaining the issue:

ShangriLa

keep in mind this was written by a breeder of reds. Only through a carefully controlled breeding program have the breeders of reds been able to address these problems. Would I want to roll the dice and blindly throw genes into the soup pot? No, when I make soup it is with carefully chosen ingredients designed to enhance the favors of the separate ingredients to make a blend that is superior to the taste of any one ingredient. I would hope a breeder would use even more care in the breeding of a puppy than I take making soup.
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