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Old 11-21-2012, 02:58 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default SAR dogs

I'm sure no one has read this thread in a while, but in case they do the biggest issue with what the advice has been is letting someone else choose your SAR dog. I have a SAR dog, and she is quite mellow in the house, but ready to work in the field. People tend to think that if you want a SAR dog you should take the "crazy" one from the litter. This simply isn't the case. The crazy ones are hard to direct, won't train easily, and won't want to work with you but do their own thing. You want a dog that has stamina, like the hunting line poodles or even ones that dog agility or hike, but also settle down in the house and in the kennel to and from searches. On my team I've seen the mellowest BC ever, and he's amazing in the field. Leave to someone else and you are going to get a dog you can't live with.

I am in talks to have a breeding SAR poodle myself, and I am training a SAR Malinois also. She is a joke amongst other SAR Mals because she isn't crazy, I can leave in the house without her chewing up the couch. I don't want a hi drive Mal that has to have its teeth removed because it broke them trying to rip open their kennel. So why would you want that in a poodle also? The truth is that you don't. You want hunt drive, not prey drive, they are very different.

I do agree that you will have to take care in where you place your puppies, but you are likely to get the full spectrum of lazy to crazy in each litter...just like every other litter. There are a lot of companion dog breeders, but dogs that can keep us fit, do some work, and still be healthy are needed. A male will be easier to breed and still work. A female will have to stop working while she gestates and has the puppies. After that she'll come into heat more often, but she should still work even in heat. And other dogs searching should also keep working. If they can't search with a bitch around then they aren't very good.

I look forward to supporting Akira Poodles and APAW, especially when choosing my foundation dog. My only suggestion is to think of your SAR dog as a dog, and not get hung up on the fact that is a poodle. Either its a good SAR dog or its not. Being a poodle is just an awesome extra. Oh, and wait for the right dog to come, you'll be working with it a while.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:19 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Thanks so much for your reply!

I got my girl, and this October she certified through NAPWDA as a Cavadar Dog. She had also has her UKC Ch and her CGC. She will be 15 months old in few days. Lovin' my first poodle!
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:06 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Great news!

Where did you end up getting your poodle from? I'd be interested in where you go with this line of poodles.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:23 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Me too- I found this thread very interesting. Would love to know how you found the right breeder & chose the right dog for your needs.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:29 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairhavenmagick View Post
she certified through NAPWDA as a Cavadar Dog.
Are you on a working SAR team? The NAPWDA training looks great, but their bylaws say that the cadaver cert is only good for one year and only if you work on a police force? So did you find a place to work her on a regular basis or were only able to get a certification?

A one years certification sounds pretty short. It takes a lot of work to pass those tests.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:01 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I'm not sure which member you are asking so I'll answer in case it is me.
A one-year cert for cadaver is not unusual. On the team I was on, one year we recerted with a modified test that required finding two items inside or outside, could have areas with no item, but in general was done inside rooms and there were two or more items to be found.
The odd year and the initial cert was a one acre test that had a minimum of two items, one hanging and one buried, and you had an hour to find both items. If the dog false alerted and the handler recognized it as such, and if the dog continued on to find the real items, it was still a pass. However if the handler called a false alert a real alert, the dog failed.
After I left the team the State changed it's requirements but I don't know offhand what they are.
I believe NAWPDA has a civilian section that also listst the tests they will administer to non-LEO handlers. They include cadaver. I'm saying that from memory so I ought to go look, eh?
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:53 PM   #27 (permalink)
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NAPWDA does allow civilians to become non-voting members, you need a LEO member to sign off for you to join. Your certification is valid when responding at the request of law enforcement.
Most certifying organizations only offer one or sometimes two year certs. I'm just fine with that as it means you and your dog must keep up your training. Recent and recurring certs from outside organizations are becoming more important, especially if you end up having to go to court.

My team is a national non-profit organization (501c3). We respond at the request of law enforcement. Mostly in our area and state, sometimes out of state, and once in a blue moon out of country. We typically train at least 20 hours a month, more often it's closer to 50 hours.

I ended up getting my girl from Mithril Standard Poodles. She is not breeding for the time being as she is working overseas. When I was looking I found about 5 breeders that would fit my requirements and that would accept me and my needs. Of those 5, 3 of them got some of their foundation stock from Mithril. And she ended up being only a couple hours away.
My pup is mostly from Australian and Swedish stock that were incorporated into Mithril's lines.
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:51 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Certs

Oh, I know that dog certs are one year, it was just unclear to me that you were on a team. For a moment I couldn't figure out why you would do all the certs and training and not get to put it to use, but you cleared that right up. Which is awesome! It does make sense to have a second certifying agency to validate your finds if you go to court. Plus, the cert is recognized by NIMS and FEMA. That's a huge kudos on you for the training. Poodles can do anything.
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:05 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Default SAR poodle breeders

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dogs View Post
Would love to know how you found the right breeder & chose the right dog for your needs.
I can only speak from my experience, but I started looking for breeders that kept intact tails. For stability I want a full tail, which removes many show breeders from the possibilities. Not that they don't have drivey dogs, one of my pet poodles is the best hunting dog ever, and would have made a fabulous SAR dog. However, I got involved in SAR when she was too old to start training, over 5 yo. So I trained with my youngest dog, 1.5 yo.

I was told to look for two things in a puppy. 1) Does it run up to you as a stranger and enthusiastically engage you? 2) will it play with a toy and bring it back repeatedly. A cadaver dog should ignore live people but not be scared of them, and a live recovery dog needs to run right up to them.

I personally recommend breeders I know have performance in their lines but also have healthy dogs, such as Tudorose or Akira. I am not sure what Helen King's kennel is called, but she is a great resource. These breeders would also know who else to go to.

Many of the breeders with great websites have to use fancy pictures to promote a dog that has a health issue they are hiding. Just don't let someone pick a dog for you. You have to do the research and pick the pup yourself so that you can be responsible for helping its shortcomings. Every dog will have something to work on, if you don't know what it is then you are behind the curve.

Its true though, that a few breeders have told me that they don't want their dogs working, they are pets only. Probably because they did not breed the right temperament or structure for working and it would be bad on their lines if you worked a dog into hip displaysia. Getting a dog sight unseen from overseas can be risky, so you might have to travel there to meet the breeder and be sure the parents have traits you like. Unless of course you are ok with owning several dogs before you get the right one.
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