whitepoodles

Bigredpoodle:

The only person who may be able to tell you who the breeder is would be Arreau since the client who lost the dog contacted Cherri to let her know what transpired.

bigredpoodle

She has in fact shared this information with me just a moment ago I truly appreciate knowing .

Sutton Bend

Whitepoodles,

Your opinion/knowledge regarding vaccines has me thinking. Years ago we purchased two totally unrelated dogs, not poodles. They had free run of both the house and the yard. They started having seizures within 1 or 2 months of each other, at a relatively young age (1 or 2 years?). We puzzled and puzzled over this because it seemed like it must be environmental.

We tended to believe it was topical flea/tick treatments, but the vet(s) eventually diagnosed "Coonhound Paralysis" even though some symptoms did not fit. I believe they were trying to give us a "name" to the ailment and grasping at straws. I do not remember the timing of vaccines in relation to their seizure onset...but I do believe I will be very, very cautious regarding immunizations from here on out.

I am very careful with what my family eats, and regarding medicines, but I had not really thought of it regarding the dogs. The topicals were new back then, and did make me very nervous, but so did flea infestation. We travel all over the U.S. on vacation and take our pets with us. We have never been asked to show our paperwork but many campgrounds do require it and without rabies tags (they look for them), or immunization paperwork, we might have a hard time getting in.

Our County does require Rabies, but we only do 3 year Rabies shots. Do you think a titre would suffice for either the County or camping? I would consider going to different campgrounds, but many are State and National Parks. Has anyone had experience with titre papers VS immunization papers?

whitepoodles

[QUOTE=Sutton Bend;120017]Whitepoodles,

Your opinion/knowledge regarding vaccines has me thinking. Years ago we purchased two totally unrelated dogs, not poodles. They had free run of both the house and the yard. They started having seizures within 1 or 2 months of each other, at a relatively young age (1 or 2 years?). We puzzled and puzzled over this because it seemed like it must be environmental.

We tended to believe it was topical flea/tick treatments, but the vet(s) eventually diagnosed "Coonhound Paralysis" even though some symptoms did not fit. I believe they were trying to give us a "name" to the ailment and grasping at straws. I do not remember the timing of vaccines in relation to their seizure onset...but I do believe I will be very, very cautious regarding immunizations from here on out.

I am very careful with what my family eats, and regarding medicines, but I had not really thought of it regarding the dogs. The topicals were new back then, and did make me very nervous, but so did flea infestation. We travel all over the U.S. on vacation and take our pets with us. We have never been asked to show our paperwork but many campgrounds do require it and without rabies tags (they look for them), or immunization paperwork, we might have a hard time getting in.

Our County does require Rabies, but we only do 3 year Rabies shots. Do you think a titre would suffice for either the County or camping? I would consider going to different campgrounds, but many are State and National Parks. Has anyone had experience with titre papers VS immunization papers?[/QUOTE]

Sutton Bend:

You raised good points.

My knowledge about vaccinations stems only from what I have researched and more importantly based on my breeder friends opinions and experience with vaccines, relating to standard poodles.

I do not profess to be a vet only a concerned dog owner who wants to have long lived healthy companions both mine and my clients'.

My experience has been that dogs emmanating out of the Ormar line have mostly been long lived and healthy without any autoimmune issues.

I experienced VERY few autoimmune disorders in my dogs and I do keep tabs on my breeding post leaving my home. These disorders relate to Epilepsy and Addison's which I believe can be brought on my multiple vaccination protocol.

A PUPPY bitch I produced was vaccinated at THREE months old with DHPP. At FIVE mos. old she came down with Epileptic seizures.

Now if one is to tell me that a dog over 1 year old or older comes down with Epileptic seizures I would definitely thing ok Idiopathic but must be genetic in nature.

This puppy was Alas ONLY 5 mos. old.. there is no way that a puppy can come down SO YOUNG with seizures. At least not from what I have heard.

I contacted many friends of mine who are poodle owners and breeders and unanimously we all came to the decision that it MUST be the DHPP vaccine that exacerbated Epileptic seizures.

I am saying EXACERBATED because it is my opinion that the dog's immune system has to be somewhat unhealthy for them to come down with a grand mal seizure following DHPP vaccination or any other treatment.

It is my opinion that yes, Epilepsy can be brought on to surface because of vaccinations and/or any other foreign substance put onto or in our poodles, but the dog in my opinion must alraedy be autoimmune compromised to show a reaction to the vaccine.

We cant say that the vaccine ALONE brought about the reaction, what I believe from doing my research is that the dog's immune system must already be compromised in order for them to show an autoimmune reaction to any foreign substance injected in them or topically put.

Poodles are known to have poor autoimmune systems, as such veterinarians must take this into consideration BEFORE embarking on a vaccination program.

Any knowledgeable vet will tell you that our breed IF they had treated many in their clinics do have sensitive and compromised immune systems, as such this alone should be considered by any vet whose client owns our breed.

My vet fortunately will not fight me on my beliefs. He respects me and knows that if I insist on anything it is because I have done my research and know what I am talking about..

He is wonderful and has personally witnessed putting down my SIXTEEN year old foundation female who has never been vaccinated (Except for her initial 3 puppy shots) (Oh well Rabies is another story and there are ways to combat the Rabies difficulty.. but not every professional will be willing to do this for a client).

I looked at him and said.. you see, sixteen years old and NEVER a genetic ailment or autoimmune issue.

What can I say, the proof is in the pudding.

As to Rabies vaccines, I agree it must be given in most areas every 3 years...
And.. dont kid yourselves the ONE year vaccine has the same effect as the 3 years vaccine.. SO IF YOUR VET does administer the so called ONE year vaccine to your baby at 6 months old, this WILL cover your dog for three years I am sure... So IF you must vaccinate for rabies and I am sure you do, I would do the Rabies vaccines at 7 mos. old (as late as possible if you can and never combined with any other vaccine like DHPP or Bordatella or Lepto) and repeat the Rabies 3 years later.

Just a note here, I did post in a previous thread (cant remember where) that someone I know who owns a standard poodle (Not my breeding) who is now waiting for a puppy out of Lola and Cole as her 2nd dog, told me that her dog now 5 years old is due for DHPP vaccines.. She did mention that her dog is epileptic and I told her NEVER vaccinate an epileptic dog NO MATTER WHAT.

Her vet knows that her dog is epileptic (on Pot. Bromide) and still went ahead and vaccinated the dog for DHPP (3 year vaccine) fully knowing that the dog's autoimmune system is compromised.

Within 2 weeks this poor dog came down with a massive grand mal seizure following which his owner emailed me to say how horrible this experience was for her as it was intense and frightening, telling me, I SHOULD of listened to you and not vaccinated him BUT MY VET TOLD ME IT WILL BE OK.

Yes, it was ok, wasnt it ??!!

I am trully so fed up and so disgusted with SOME vets who either do NOT know their business or know it too well but are mostly interested in and focused on their pockets.

When we put a foreign substance in our system or our dogs' systems we DO take a chance...

Vibrant

It's not difficult to figure out who the breeder is given the subtle clues in the original post.

whitepoodles

[QUOTE=Vibrant;120084]It's not difficult to figure out who the breeder is given the subtle clues in the original post.[/QUOTE]

Vibrant:

And I do agree, however I will not mention names... just not right.
Also there has been so much he said she said about this unfortunate death that in all honesty unless someone sees the necropsy report signed by a vet and speaks to the horse's mouth (the client themselves) only then can things be written in stone.. Until then it may be just that hearsay? who knows? and this has already been rehashed to death and time to put it at rest... this is why I mentioned that the only person who was told about this by the client is Arreau and that she is the one to be contacted.