Breeder is changing the rules. - Poodle Forum - Standard Poodle, Toy Poodle, Miniature Poodle Forum ALL Poodle owners too!

flightsoffancy · 11-25-2011, 04:46 PM

I am so upset that I hope I can coherently type this.....
Ok. After an exhausting search for my perfect poodle I actually found a local breeder that would sell me a female from color and confirmation breeding. Just what I was looking for. So I placed my deposit when the baby was 1 week old. She stated she would send me weekly updates with pictures. So far only 1. But people get busy so I let it go. Now we are getting close....the puppy is 6 weeks old and the breeder contacts me saying that she would like me to breed this female and she has the perfect male, her half brother. Would I please take them both. I thanked her for the offer, but no thank you. I had not intended to breed her at all and def not to her half brother!! Then she says that she wants a puppy from her, she is so fantastic maybe she should keep her. I just about die! So I say that if she passes health screening that I would consider it. She then says that I will need to pay a breeder price for the puppy. ACK! I asked if she could hold papers and at the time we decide if she is breeder quality I will buy papers or she can have a pick of litter in lue of papers. She agrees. We had also agreed that she would keep the puppy until after Christmas because I am a groomer and will be very busy. I also have a litter of Great Pyrenees/LGDs and I want all of them gone before I bring a new puppy home. She had no issues with this, but NOW she wants me to come first week of Dec and pay in full for breeding rights.
HELP me understand what the heck is going on here. Why would she change at the last minute and pressure me like this?

CT Girl · 11-25-2011, 05:28 PM

It sounds like you don't have a contract with this breeder otherwise she would not be able to change terms midstream. I am not a breeder and this is my rather uninformed opinion but a quality breeder would not breed a sister to her half brother unless they were the highest calibre of dog with no genetic defects. I wonder what the COI is on her dogs? I would not change the agreed on price or the conditions of the sale. If she wants to do so refuse and ask for your deposit back. She is acting in bad faith. There are other puppies and other reputable breeder with contracts that they will live up to.

outwest · 11-25-2011, 05:41 PM

As far as breeding to brothers, half brother etc., there are a lot of people who don't give a hoot about COI, some on this forum. They think it doesn't matter at all. I think it does, but many breeders inbreed on purpose. That doesn't mean she is a lousy breeder, just one with different thoughts on the important of inbreeding.

It sounds like she thinks the puppy is really nice and is upset she agreed to sell her as a pet. It is hard to put a deposit down on an unborn puppy. The breeders don't know what quality the puppies will be until near 7 weeks old (which she is). Now, she is having second thoughts. She would probably be just as happy giving you your money back and keeping her or selling her for more money to someone else.

Maybe you should back out. She has you by the heart strings and that puts her in power. Don't let her do it unless you are comfortable with her new terms. There are other puppies, honestly there are.

flightsoffancy · 11-25-2011, 06:26 PM

You are both making excellent points.
I don't have a contract, but I have our emails and the receipt for my deposit with all the info on it. Not sure but, I think that might stand up. This conversation was by phone.
I am hoping she is a nice puppy and that we can work it out. Quality ice white female toys are not a dime a dozen around here and I looked for a very long time. Most breeders will not sell females at all. I have been so excited and now she is kinda taking the wind out of my sails. I now feel like I need to run up there and get her asap! ACK!

flightsoffancy · 11-25-2011, 06:28 PM

I need to send her an email. Any suggestions on what to say?

Quossum · 11-26-2011, 09:26 AM

Honestly? I would back out of this deal. BUT, that's easy for me to say when my heartstrings are not firmly attached to a beautiful and much-sought-after puppy. The thing is, you will be "connected" to this breeder for some time with these new terms, and it doesn't sound like you're totally on board with her philosophies. This way lies madness.

If you really, really *cannot* leave this deal and resume your search, then I would say that in your next convo with the breeder you need to get some specific, written terms governing the puppy, its papers, and possible breeding--when, only under X conditions (name the health tests that must be passed!), and clear discussion of any puppy-back deals.

Think of it...if this breeder is changing the rules of the game now, she could do it again and again as "your" puppy ages. You could end up living under a constant pall of stress concerning your dream puppy. Can you do that?

Tough decision...but best of luck to you in whatever direction you choose to go.

--Q

minipoodlelover · 11-26-2011, 09:41 AM

"It sounds like she thinks the puppy is really nice and is upset she agreed to sell her as a pet. "

I had the exact same impression as outwest. You're in a tough situation, because you'll be in a relationship with this breeder and if you're finding it difficult now, it probably won't get any easier.

minipoodlelover · 11-26-2011, 09:42 AM

Sorry!

CT Girl · 11-26-2011, 11:21 AM

If you want to proceed I don't think I would send her an email. I would see her in person and bring a copy of your email correspondence. Talk it out and see if you can reach a compromise. I would at this point draw up a contract that you both sign so as Quossom warns she can not change her terms again. I really feel for you. I know how excited I was preparing for Swizzle. You sound like you really want this puppy; I hope it works out for you.

flightsoffancy · 11-26-2011, 01:19 PM

I sent her an email last night. I asked her to allow me to have her under our original agreement with a pet contract. I would come get her as soon as she was 8 weeks. Then if she passes genetic testing and any other standard health tests (Patella etc) I would gladly pay the breeder price for her. I even put a stipulation that it all had to be done by the time she was 5 months old or she would be spayed!
She responded saying that this puppy was show quality. (OH REALLY! at 6 weeks! from a breeder who does not show!!) Breeder stated she would not be sold with out breeder contract and price. End of story!
So I have asked for her pedigree which I haven't asked for because I didn't care. She was only going to be my best buddy. I also asked for her COI rating. If she is really proud of this puppy I will get it and if she is only trying to squeeze more money out of me, her true colors will show. However, I think they already have. I seem to be trying to protect her bloodline and the poodle more than she is. She seems to just be after my money.
So I gave her a non-refundable deposit that I guess she thinks she will get to keep? ACK!!

WHY does this have to be so darn hard! Any recommendations on White Toy Breeders?