taem

I have no idea how any of this works, I've never purchased a puppy from a breeder before.

But let's say I wanted a pup that is going to be smaller than his parents, active and cuddly, and will accept new dogs into the household. Understanding that environment and training will play a huge role in some of that, how confidently would a breeder be able to recommend a specific pup from the litter?

PaddleAddict

Although a breeder's dogs will in general share a number of traits and that breeder will be familiar with those traits, I don't see how any breeder could guarantee things like size (will definitely be smaller than the parents) or whether the puppy will grow up to be cuddly or not. (By the way, I think "active" and "cuddly" are opposite traits so it would be harder to end up with a dog that is both active AND cuddly. My poodle is active and loving, but not cuddly.) As far as accepting new dogs into a household I think that would be mostly training and socialization on your part.

taem

Oh I'm not looking for guaranties on these, I'm wondering how confident breeders feel when they make a recommendation based on a client's preferences.

As for active and cuddly being opposites, really? Maybe I'm just using the wrong terms. My toys wanted to zoom a lot and kill birds, but in-between they wanted to sit in your lap and be stroked, brushed, or fed treats. So many poodles I know are that way.

fjm

I'm rather wary of temperament tests, so would always take those with a large pinch of salt. I am also unsure about how a pup could be smaller than his parents - the average of the two, perhaps, but smaller than both? Ummmm ...

Having said all that, if a puppy had parents who both displayed the temperament I wanted, and were both of approximately the size and type I wanted, then YIPPEE! I might now be checking for a puppy I was happy to take home...

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To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden,
where doing nothing was not boring- it was peace.

~ Milan Kundera

catsaqqara

They can't guarantee size, In Jaden's litter they ranged from the parents size to a few inches taller and as puppies there is no way to tell.
Jaden is both very cuddly and very active, But his traits are present in his "family", so a good place to start is the parents. If the parents have the traits you want then there is a good chance the puppies will.

I believe Jaden's breeder was able to tell he was a cuddler and what position he was in the pack(how dominant) he also has many personality traits that must be genetic because they line up perfectly with the personality of his mom and littermates. He came to me at 11 weeks.

I think dominance would affect accepting new dogs a little but mostly it will be socialization.

Also she didn't to temperament testing, she just spent a lot of time with them getting to know them.

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_____Bambi____________________Jaden____________

peppersb

I agree with fjm. I'd be paying a lot of attention to both the temperament and the size of the parents, and I'd be skeptical about any claims that the pup would be smaller than its parents.

I was looking for a small spoo, so I asked a lot of questions about size. One breeder advised me to look for a pup with a compact body, but she also said that you could not be sure. She had seen small pups grow into large adults. I ended up getting the smallest pup (with a compact body) from a litter that came from a small mom (21 inches) and a bigger dad (about 25 inches). My girl is now 6 months and 19 inches, so she will probably be the size of her mom, but almost certainly not smaller.

Regarding temperament, I've known spoos who vary tremendously in their general energy level. I was looking for a relatively calm dog, and so I asked breeders about how calm the parents were. Dogs that are promoted as good therapy dogs are likely to be calmer than dogs that make good agility dogs. Of course, there are differences within the litter, and the breeder can advise you about that.

IMO, the best way to get a dog to accept new dogs is to make sure there is lots of continuing socialization so that the puppy learns how to communicate with other dogs and enjoy their presence. Also, best to introduce a new dog when the first one is still young.

taem

Interesting, thanks guys. I was wondering how to weight that vs my preferences in terms of coat color, sex, and just which pup I like. Doesn't seem very simple, that process. I still don't know quite how that works. Maybe some of you could relate experiences? How specific do breeders get when they discuss a pup's probable temperament? And did you just go with that, or did you say "thanks but I prefer this one"?

The size thing is interesting. I have known litters with huge variance in puppy sizes (when grown up that is). I'm not just talking runts, I know litters bred by reputable breeders that produced monsters alongside petites. Am I to understand this is not to be considered normal and I shouldn't count on it? Sort of in a similar spot to peppersb, I cannot get a large dog, 21" 40# is too big (both parents of the std litter), and I was wondering if a significantly smaller pup might appear.

peppersb

There are plenty of trade-offs, that's for sure. I wanted a black or blue poodle but ended up with a cream. My girl's parents are both black, and when I went to see the pups they were 7 weeks and 3 black girls and 1 cream girl were still available. The little cream one crawled into my lap and looked up at me. I tried to tell her that I preferred black, but to no avail. I was smitten! She was one of the spunkiest in the litter and clearly very curious about her environment and the new people who were visiting. She was also the smallest in the litter. So I put a deposit down on her and came back a week later to pick her up. Both of her parents were described to me as being very sweet and calm, and that's the way they appeared to me when I met them.

If 21 inches, 40 pounds is too big for you, I think that will be hard to find a spoo pup that will reliably be under that limit. I just think it is hard to tell what the adult size will be. Maybe you should look into a litter that is specifically bred as a moyen/klein? Or a mini? Initially, I really wanted a moyen/klein, but the only breeders I could find were far away from me and therefore hard to evaluate. But I think there are some on the west coast. So maybe that would be a possibility for you?

Poodle Head

In my experience with the spoo I have now (she's 7 months), the breeder was pretty accurate with everything - and ultimately made the final call in who got which puppy. I was lucky enough to meet both parents - the sire came bounding into the room ready to jump and play, the dam was soft and sweet and sat in front of me looking to be loved. She did do temperament testing and said to just use it as an added piece of info, but not to put too much stock in it. My girl came out with mostly all threes, some fours, and a two. I'd say hers was dead on. She certainly needs her exercise and training, but when she's tired, she is a snuggler. We were actually anticipating a different puppy, but when we arrived she told us that she made a last minute change based on meeting one of the other owners. They were a little older and in a retirement community. We have a big fenced in yard and could handle a more exuberant puppy. She knows the puppies best, so I trusted her instincts. We got the right puppy for us, and I hope the other owners feel the same way.
I would think that size is more difficult to predict... and don't really think it's possible to say that a puppy would end smaller than his/her parents.

CT Girl

I like to meet the puppy's relatives to help me see what a likely temperment will be. I do think that good breeders are interacting with the pups so much that they have a very accurate idea of their personality traits. Height is hard and I would look to the size of the parents and grandparents to be the best predictor. You need to decide what is important to use. To me personality was more important than coat color. When it came down to picking the actual puppy I did have the breeder make the final determination. With my Aussie I fell in love with his grandfather and told the breeder I wanted the puppy with his temperment. The breeder knew just which pup we should have and she definately made the right choice for us. Once you pick a good breeder it is good to be guided by their advice. No one will know their dogs better than they do.