how accurately can breeders predict adult sizes and temperaments? - Page 2 - Poodle Forum - Standard Poodle, Toy Poodle, Miniature Poodle Forum ALL Poodle owners too!

Rowan · 11-12-2011, 04:29 AM

I can only speak from experience, and it's quite possible my breeder was psychic, but she was spot on regarding both my MPOO's size and temperament.

I met both parents, and she told me my pup would favor his father in all things poodle. He's a precise duplicate, or as close as one can be. (I tried to "adopt" the father when he was neutered. He was an amazing dog, and I still want him.) It was the same with my second MPOO. He was an unexpected addition, but she nailed his size/temperament too.

So, to answer your question: I think breeders can come up with a profile based on the dam/sire, and also their observations. They may also temperament test (Volhard, etc.) when the pups are of age. Will they be 100% accurate? Not sure. Unless they're psychic like my breeder.

I'm now tempted to consider astrology. I want an oversized black mini male born on 22 September (just like Alex).

(J/K. Sort of.)

schnauzerpoodle · 11-12-2011, 10:22 AM

Nickel's breeder knew he's going to be big but he's surprised when I told him Nickel weighed 12 lbs at 4 months and kept asking me if that was correct. He told me Nickel would be around 18 lbs and now Nickel is full grown and weighs 20 lbs. So to me it's pretty accurate.

Chagall's mom · 11-12-2011, 01:41 PM

The only singular experience I have to offer is that Chagall's breeder was spot-on in identifying his temperament. She told me he was a "marshmellow," and I can't think of a better description; he's soft and sweet (and squeezable, too!). I met his dam and maternal grand dam, who were total sweethearts, before meeting him. As for size, he loomed over his littermates from the start. I knew he had a large Russian ancestor a few generations back, and I was game to have larger mini. I would say his breeder nailed it!

taem · 11-12-2011, 03:36 PM

Thanks all, I find these anecdotes interesting and helpful. Tbh the thought of picking out one puppy from a bunch, that seems impossible. And no matter how meticulously you plan, no matter what strategy you come up with, you could run into peppersb's situation where the pup chooses for you lol.

I think that I am not going to stress the size issue at all, and I think I'll probably weigh the breeder's rec very heavily, if not just go with it outright. We chatted briefly (it's too early yet to get into detailed talk) and the breeder seemed to think the broad outline of my needs would be pretty easy to match.

And unless pup turned out to be cujo or something, I could deal with most personalities I think. You might have to walk more than you had anticipated; or you might not be winning agility titles like you'd hoped; but a disastrous mismatch, that's an extremely rare scenario, no?

spoospirit · 11-12-2011, 06:13 PM

Temperament is more reliable to predict than size.

Our puppies were evaluated. Of 8 puppies, 4 scored above 5 across the board; the rest had 5's, 6's, 4's and 3's. The white bitch I picked after the whelping scored the highest across the board and is preparing for her first show in two weeks. Her temperament is just like her father's (he is a conformation champion) and so is her structure. We guessed her to be bigger in size like her father as well and so far she is. Because we spend so much time with the pups as they develop, we could see from early on that this girl was special.

We spend a great deal of time with our puppies from birth until we find the perfect home for them. We can tell you about each puppies temperament and what we believe they will be like as adults. We can give you their strengths and their weaknesses. We can tell you if they are showing signs of being good at agility, retrieving, or posses the temperament to be a good therapy dog. Some love the water and would make a perfect match with an outdoors person who loves to hike, swim and boat. Some did not have an affinity for the water but were excellent at other things. We definitely match a puppies temperament to a buyers lifestyle. If we have more than one puppy with the appropriate temperament for them, then they get to spend as much time as they want with them while we watch them interact. One man spent almost an entire day with the puppies and us before choosing between two. It is imperative that the match be right. If we have a gut feeling that one particular pup is going to be the best match, then we tell the buyer that it is the puppy for them.

We had one pup that scored high and could have been conformation ring bound, but she ended up quieter like our foundation dogs that we purchased for therapy work. Because of her quiet nature, she was not suited for the ring and also needed a quiet home with a gentle hand. She stayed with us until she was near 5-months-old until the perfect older couple came for her. She bonded with them and their year old poodle immediately!

Our puppy parents and relatives are all here for people to interact with when they come to look at puppies. We want them to see their temperaments for themselves. If we bred out to a dog as we did this last litter, we cannot have him here, but we can describe his temperament well as it is apparent in his puppies who take after him.

Size is somewhat predictable but never guaranteed. Our dogs are between 23" to 26" and weigh from approximately 45 lbs to 53 lbs. The stud we bred too was 26" and a little heavier than our dogs. We know that in his background there is a ch bitch who was a very petite girl. In our dogs backgrounds there are a few dogs that have made the 26" height. So we knew we had to take that into consideration when asked about size. We will offer a range of what we believe a puppy will end up, but we never guarantee it. There are too many variables.

I think when looking for a puppy that good health, temperament and a good match for your lifestyle should be at the top of the list. Be sure that all testing has been done on the parents and that their hips are good. Then size might be the next important thing for you because you may live in a small apartment or have other restrictions. Although people most often go for color first, I think it should be at the bottom of the list. If you are lucky, you may get everything you are looking for in your puppy, but leave room to make some adjustments if needed.

minipoodlelover · 11-13-2011, 04:39 PM

Thank you spoospirit for your very interesting post. As a poodle owner, I've always wanted to know more about what happened before the puppy came home with me, and you provided a very descriptive glimpse into that time period. I find it fascinating that good breeders can evaluate each puppy and predict which ones will be best suited for different pursuits, including the show ring, and match puppies to new homes with such accuracy.

bigredpoodle · 11-13-2011, 04:52 PM

It is hard to predict size for sure.. I have a size that I like and all of my dogs are in that range. But genetics are genetics. So sometimes that litter will range in size from an inch or two inches. Usually this is not the case but it has happened ... Temperament testing is not very accurate. I have done this in the past and the babies were definitely what the test says. I microchip at 6 weeks have a scanner and take copious notes. So when someone is here choosing the baby I can refer to my notes....I scan assign a collar color and we go from there .. it is usually right on ...CT that is true. When I do have to choose for someone, I take that very seriously and take into consideration all that comes to play . I will video and talk on the video ...Explain to the puppy family that this is the baby that does this and that.. WE get on the phone together and go over the video...And so on ... I have had great success in doing it this way..